Northwest Pilots Stand to Gain Alot....

[filejw]

why in the world would NWA pilots pass up on this windfall now (pay NOW, work rules NOW) for what they hope to achieve in a few more years with a new contract?

why would delta pilots agree to these modest pay increases when there's much more coming next year with a new contract?

the fact that delta pilots are considering this and northwest pilots are not is simply mind-boggling.

Because pay and work rules have sea sawed back and forth over the last 30 years for both carriers so there is no reason to jump to an agreement for short term greed.

 

[General Lee]

Because pay and work rules have sea sawed back and forth over the last 30 years for both carriers so there is no reason to jump to an agreement for short term greed.

And at least you guys get to keep Steenland. He'll be open to whatever you want next time. So what? Your kids can wait to go to college for a few more years. Make them work at a Starbucks NOW, so they get a good work ethic as a "Barista" and you get a discount on your lattes at the airport. That is not short term GREED, that is short term GOOD.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jke406]

Because pay and work rules have sea sawed back and forth over the last 30 years for both carriers so there is no reason to jump to an agreement for short term greed.

News flash: the only game for pilots in the airline industry is short term. The next 9/11 could be tomorrow. Take what you can get now and run.

Otherwise, prepare to get bent over during your next negotiations (in a few years).

Unless, of course, you think Steenland will play ball with you.

 

[Diesel-9]

Think its time to talk to CAL. Let the Manson Family get acquainted with the UAL and LCC seniority lists.

 

[General Lee]

Think its time to talk to CAL. Let the Manson Family get acquainted with the UAL and LCC seniority lists.

You think CAL will be easier than DL? They have hired 2000 in the past couple years, and a 4 or 5 year guy can hold 737 Capt in EWR. Yeah, they want to give that up to you geezers. I think you are spending way too much time in NRT with your gate agent girlfriend. And your man (forever now) Steenland says consolidation is inevitable. Great. Now you can meet a group with OLDER pilots---LCC. Dougwiser would love to merge with you guys. Have fun with that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ironspud]

Whew! That guy is bitter.

 

[Flopgut]

The DC-9 requires a measure of airmanship. "Measure" in this case refers to something other than the number of one's posts on FI.

Airmanship and a current tetanus shot.

 

[Flopgut]

Think its time to talk to CAL.

I'm just one CAL pilot, but I'd be happy to get a similiar DAL deal you just turned down! And I think we bring more to the equation than you guys.

Why don't you NWA guys go talk to AA?

 

[DTW320]

Airmanship and a current tetanus shot.

At least DC9 pilots don't have to worry about MALARIA as, apparently, DL 767 pilots do:

By MATT KEMPNER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/28/08

After more than 22 years flying for Delta Air Lines, Bill Starnes knows exactly where he stands compared with his more than 7,000 colleagues: No. 236.


For airline pilots, where they sit on the seniority ladder determines whether they fly high or suck wind working every holiday, missing the biggest paydays, sitting on call and worrying about furloughs.


"It means everything," said Starnes, 53, who lives in Peachtree City and captains a 767 only on some of the sweetest routes: to Hawaii, Paris, Rome and other European destinations.


Delta's merger hopes with Northwest Airlines appear to depend in part on solving stalled talks between the separate pilot union locals for the two airlines. The pilot groups are supposed to be devising a plan for blending their seniority lists.


"Your whole life is tied to seniority," Starnes said. "That's why people become so defensive about it."
Seniority generally comes down to how many pilots there are and how many were hired after you. The system works like golden handcuffs between pilots and an airline. If pilots leave for another U.S. carrier, they face landing at the bottom of the pecking order with their new employer.


"Seniority is the key to pick your base [airport], your airplane, determine when you get vacation, pick your trips," Starnes said.


With enough seniority, first officers and captains get dibs on flying bigger planes and longer routes that set them up for higher pay.


Starnes figures that if he had a rank of No. 1,000 instead of 236th, he'd be making about 10 percent less money. He also could be bouncing around on domestic routes or taking less attractive international flights to destinations where he says he'd worry about security and malaria.

In his first year as captain of a 737, Starnes remembers what his low seniority ranking got him: flights away from home on birthdays, his anniversary and every holiday other than Halloween. Over his career, low seniority meant 10-hour layovers in Detroit with just enough time for sleep and 31 hours in a Buffalo hotel during a snowstorm.


But seniority also can determine whether pilots get to keep their jobs. And that's a particular concern to those who are most junior and therefore most vulnerable to the industry's volatility.


"First and foremost it means job protection," said Jeff Bendoski, a 40-year-old first officer for Delta who lives in Burlington, Vt.


After nearly nine years with Delta, he's only about a third of the way up the seniority list. That's better than where he was after
9/11, when Bendoski said he was about six slots away from being furloughed.
"I was hanging on by my fingernails," he said.
Compared to that, having dibs on choice vacation times and routes is "way on the back burner."


Bendoski is waiting to see what deal, if any, the Delta and Northwest pilot groups can work out.
"I'm concerned. Nobody wants to get shafted," he said.
But he reasons that grumbling over the final outcome might not be a bad sign: "You know the definition of a fair seniority list integration? Both sides are angry."

 

[Fly4hire]

I'm just one CAL pilot, but I'd be happy to get a similiar DAL deal you just turned down! And I think we bring more to the equation than you guys.

Why don't you NWA guys go talk to AA?

Think about it - not long ago NWALPA was being beat up badly for taking such an industry lagging contract in Ch11.

Now they are taking a hard line against DALPA's offer - with essentially the same MEC makeup (actually weaker IMO) as we had when we took that POS TA.

We know some of the contract details, yet little or none of the SLI proposals.

Either NWALPA just grew a set of really big ones overnight, or there is something that really, REALLY stinks in DALPA's SLI proposal.

 

[Flopgut]

Think about it - not long ago NWALPA was being beat up badly for taking such an industry lagging contract in Ch11.

Now they are taking a hard line against DALPA's offer - with essentially the same MEC makeup (actually weaker IMO) as we had when we took that POS TA.

We know some of the contract details, yet little or none of the SLI proposals.

Either NWALPA just grew a set of really big ones overnight, or there is something that really, REALLY stinks in DALPA's SLI proposal.

How bad could it be? You've got new legislation backing up 'the worst", which isn't going to be necessary IMHO. And, how could anything they have be worse than another airline? You're not going to like any deal with CAL (can't staple us, and I'm afraid with the current sentiment held toward us anything short of that will be viewed a failure), and you need to watch out for AA. You're just the right size with no/little overlap, that would not be pretty. You don't want to find yourselves regretting this DAL deal.

 

[Fly4hire]

How bad could it be?

Apparently bad enough for our hitherto (as labeled here) weak dick MEC to unanimously reject the SLI proposal despite the apparently generous contract enhancements. Hmmmmm.

You're not going to like any deal with CAL (can't staple us, and I'm afraid with the current sentiment held toward us anything short of that will be viewed a failure),

Complete nonsense. I don't know any details other than our MEC wanted "fair and equitable", and it was nothing even remotely close.

JMO, but I think NWA/CAL is a much better fit culturally and route wise, and would make for a much less contentious merger. This is what many have been saying is the best match for years.

and you need to watch out for AA. You're just the right size with no/little overlap, that would not be pretty.

Actually the new legislation provides more protection between ALPA and non-ALPA or non-union companies. AA is not the bogieman.

 

[Noserider76]

At least DC9 pilots don't have to worry about MALARIA as, apparently, DL 767 pilots do:

By MATT KEMPNER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/28/08

"It means everything," said Starnes, 53, who lives in Peachtree City and captains a 767 only on some of the sweetest routes: to Hawaii, Paris, Rome and other European destinations.

Starnes figures that if he had a rank of No. 1,000 instead of 236th, he'd be making about 10 percent less money. He also could be bouncing around on domestic routes or taking less attractive international flights to destinations where he says he'd worry about security and malaria.

What a tool that guy is. He bids the STD trips and all I get are the freakin malaria trips.

 

[Flopgut]

Apparently bad enough for our hitherto (as labeled here) weak dick MEC to unanimously reject the SLI proposal despite the apparently generous contract enhancements. Hmmmmm.

Well, I just don't know what that would be. But, I guess there could be something.

CAL/NWA might be OK. I would like to take a close look at it, especially if we could get some of that front money, incentive stuff.

 

[DTW320]

What a tool that guy is. He bids the STD trips and all I get are the freakin malaria trips.

I heard that the SLI was all worked out but the NWA negotiators insisted on special sick-leave clauses to handle the whole Malaria thing. Ya'll must have some big'ol skeeters down thar in hotlanta.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Airmanship and a current tetanus shot.

Good one! :beer:

As much as I wish I could fly those juicy Lagos trips they got over there at DAL, I'll just have to settle for the cultural cornucopia of flying the domestic NWA system.

Not that we don't have our own culture "hot zones". The Sunni Lutherans in Fargo are engaged in Hot Dish conflict with the Shi'ite Lutherans in Grand Forks. We operate amidst that insurgency every day!

 

[Flopgut]

Good one! :beer:

As much as I wish I could fly those juicy Lagos trips they got over there at DAL, I'll just have to settle for the cultural cornucopia of flying the domestic NWA system.

Not that we don't have our own culture "hot zones". The Sunni Lutherans in Fargo are engaged in Hot Dish conflict with the Shi'ite Lutherans in Grand Forks. We operate amidst that insurgency every day!

That's funny dude, really.

You probably wouldn't mind Lagos too much. Based on the sort of airplanes rotting on the ramp there you might think it was a NWA hub!

For future planning: My CAL seniority IS for sale! (evidently yours isn't!?) If you guys hate money and love being obtuse that much, write me a check for 2 million and you can have it! My brand new 737 would make a great DC9 replacement, and since you've agreed to fly such aircraft for $65/hr. I think mgt might bankroll this for you. I mean, this shouldn't sound too crazy to you, you just thumbed your nose at a pile of money!

You guys are batpoop crazy man! It can't be a "win" unless someone else "loses". Tell me the truth: If DAL had offered every single NWA pilot wide body Captain pay to take a lesser seniority integration metric, you guys would still thumb your nose at it?