Northwest Pilots explain problems holding up combination talks

[123]

On "average" if NWA/DAL went DOH (which will never happen) NWA pilots would be 8-10% more senior on the combined list. "hardly a windfall". Do you know how many proposals DALPA has given to NWAALPA? Most people would be SHOCKED at the answer.
quote]

Actually, a DOH integration would bump me (NWA)backwards in relative seniority, growing to a peak of over 9% in approx. 12 years. Is this fair, not sure, possibly, maybe not, the jury is still out.

I am hopeful that both sides can work something out and come to a mutual agreement. I think that a combined DAL/NWA team has the ability to be the top player in the global industry. With additional open skies agreements coming in the future, and increased global trade, we would be a formidible force with significant leverage (both the pilots and the company).

 

[~~~^~~~]

Actually, a DOH integration would bump me (NWA)backwards in relative seniority, growing to a peak of over 9% in approx. 12 years. Is this fair, not sure, possibly, maybe not, the jury is still out.

Again, I don't think you can be sure of that. What about future fleet deliveries and growth? The basic economic model for the industry has been 4% a year.

....and again, what can that relative seniority hold? A 10% guy at Delta can hold block on a ER in NYC.

There is more to this than a linear model. Time to do a little non-linear thinking.

 

[123]

Fins,

I am just looking at it from a "stagnant" point of view. Not assuming any numbers such as growth or "potential retires", only known facts and numbers (this is not even assuming the 787 deliveries or growth from that). Just cold hard facts.

 

[filejw]

Guess I'll go ahead and order that leather jacket.

 

[~~~^~~~]

There's no pleasing you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtNfb6D3Mc

 

[123]

There's no pleasing you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtNfb6D3Mc

Nice clip. Were you speaking to me about that? I was just stating some facts and never said if I was for or against.

There is a lot of conjecture on stated on this website, so I just wanted to put some real facts to the issue.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Occam:

On most points, we agree. On other points, we might just be talking past each other. If you and I can agree, you'd think that our Rep's would have a pretty good shot at reaching consensus.

Agree...on all points. :beer:

Our reps still have a shot at putting this thing together.

 

[FDJ2]

Pity, cuz it doesn't look like "halfway" is what it would take. Probably only a third of the way would do it.

Pity is right. A third of the way is way too far. You are approaching this as if we both entered at the end zone and not at the 48 yard line.

Your committee "showed up to get the best deal they could." Ours came in to get a fair deal for all.

We started at the 48 yard line, your guys started in the end zone. We moved to the fifty, your guys continued with their dance in the end zone. I'm sorry, but moving a third of the way wont work.

Frankly negotiations at this point with a committee that prides itself on arbitration and has never in its long tenure negotiated an agreement is not only a fools play but a waste of time.

I understand that several high ranking members of our MEC wanted the opportunity to address these issues in front of your MEC, but your MEC refused to hear them. Fine. We go our seperate ways.


If it's a "bridge too far", then we'll always have something to chat about on the hotel vans: Was it a Lone Red Tail that killed the deal? Or was it a Double-Breaster on the Grassy Knoll?

It's a "bridge too far" is right. Many outcomes are decided by a fundamental misunderstanding, miscalculation, or a poor choice early on.

When you send a committee with a list of 26 arbitrations and 0 negotiated results do you realistically expect to reach a negotiated outcome. This opportunity had its fate sealed from the beginning.

Concur on the good work done so far! Both Contract Teams should be proud of what they did!

I couldn't agree more. Also special kudos to your negotiating team. From what I hear they were impressive and "harmonized" well with our guys. When you do get to your amendable date you will be well served by your negotiators.

Good luck and no hard feelings I hope. You have a fine airline and much to be proud of.

 

[FDJ2]

Our reps still have a shot at putting this thing together.

That's another thing I admire about you. Your optimism.

Unfortunately on the highway to success there's a big road block that has a perfect record of 26 arbitrations, 0 negotiated outcomes.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Unfortunately on the highway to success there's a big road block that has a perfect record of 26 arbitrations, 0 negotiated outcomes.

Criminy!

Read this next part slowly...and lemme know what part of it you missed before:

Our full MEC reviewed the Merger Committee's actions and position, and endorsed them.

It ain't just the guys at the table. It's the full MEC. You can pin this on a few "speedbumps" if you choose. You'll be wrong, but you can still do it.

A single digit to the right of the decimal point in the formula can fix this. Of course, that means a number of your pilots will probably be upset. They will join a large number of ours who are upset.

Sweet symmetry!

DOESN'T MATTER! (Oops! Sorry. I was anticipating a reply that mentions 26 arbitrations...)