Northwest Furloughs

stillflyn

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Northwest To Demand More Union Givebacks


As a strike by its mechanics union stretches into its second week, Northwest Airlines is getting ready to ask its other large unions for more concessions in pay and benefits. Pilots are preparing for a second round of bargaining and expect management to demand $322 million in new concessions, said Mark McClain, chairman of the Northwest branch of the Air Line Pilots Association. The cuts would come on top of a 15 percent pay reduction the pilots accepted in December, he said. Northwest, which operates hubs in Detroit, Minneapolis and Memphis, has proposed cutting pilot pay by an additional 22.3 percent and reducing the pilot workforce by nearly 1,200, according to published reports. Northwest has about 5,200 active pilots and more than 500 on furlough. "Every time [Northwest negotiators] get at the table, and they think they have an advantage, they want to gut the contract," McClain said. "Northwest has always bargained hard, but [the pilots have] always bargained hard. We don't intend to gut the contract now.


Sorry to hear about this guys.

Stillflyn
 

StaySeated

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They furlough 1200 and in a year or so all of the northwest feeders will be eating their own young as EMB 170/190's are dangled in front of them for 55k a year in the left seat. Northwest has said for a while that they want to park all of their DC9's. Have they mentioned any replacement at mainline? Yet another potential job at a major just bit the dust.
 

LarryinTN

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How far back would 1200 more furloughs go on date of hire?
 

Networ-King

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StaySeated said:
They furlough 1200 and in a year or so all of the northwest feeders will be eating their own young as EMB 170/190's are dangled in front of them for 55k a year in the left seat. Northwest has said for a while that they want to park all of their DC9's. Have they mentioned any replacement at mainline? Yet another potential job at a major just bit the dust.
And yet another failure by ALPA. What was it that some of the NWA guys were saying here along with their MEC..... this is not our beef!!!!! If we strike then the airline would shut down!!!! Now a week later it seems to be your beef doesn't it? Well the senior d i c k heads at NWA and the senior d i c k heads at Delta are going to love working together if that merger rumor comes true. You guys all seem to be the best at eating your young.... the two pilot groups deserve each other.....
 

Deli Guy

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Remain Calm.....All is well......Nothing to see here.....Move along.....
Guys,
Do not freak out over this. Nwa mgmt has been floating this since 9-11. It is not new. I am a pretty junior guy and will probably get the shaft but look at the facts. Management has a pretty good upper hand here. AMFA did not realize that. (even after ALPA begged them to work in an integrated plan to give us all a position of power) They have been gutted (and I need to re state here that I really do feel for the rank and file mechanics) But why is management publishing a wish list a failure by ALPA? Give ALPA its turn. The leadership at AMFA threw away all the jobs of the mechanics because it did not know how to negotiate.
"Every time [Northwest negotiators] get at the table, and they think they have an advantage, they want to gut the contract," McClain (NWA ALPA) said. "Northwest has always bargained hard, but [the pilots have] always bargained hard. We don't intend to gut the contract now".
Stop freaking out. Just learn the lessons that AMFA has given us and that is to form a plan early that integrates early and do not go off on your own like a lone antelope. Unless you are a genetically altered mutant antelope that is the size of the Nimitz.
ALPA is aware of how important SCOPE is. It also understands that NWA needs to someday replace the 9. There is a balance. I hope it is more slanted towards scope because I am in the middle of the 1200. The guys at the top want to keep their retirement because they are old and the wolves are after them. Its a balance. If the mergers come, (another standard business tool that is used in the case of overcapacity) then we are pretty much screwed no matter who is the dominant mergette. That's business. This is not a Chicken Little moment.
 

Networ-King

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Your right..... stay calm.... nothing to see here...... LOL

Did you say let ALPA have a turn??? Wow.....

They have had many a turn... I've lost count on how many turns they've had.....with USAir, United, Delta, YOU GUYS (NWA). Alpa has shown time and time again that unity is strong ONLY when the company is making money. Other then that, its a free for all. Unity turns to ..... whats best for me. So you stay calm and have faith. I hate to say it and Im hope NWA MEC proves me wrong, but get your resume out and start networking now, not next year when its your turn at the furlough bat!!!! Good luck

ps. Can you at least inform us if there are any A s s holes picking up opentime like the greedy Delta pukes have for the last 4 years? <----which was OK'd by ALPA might I add.
 

doh

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NWA pilots have never picked up open time. I hope that hasn't changed. Let them do their work. They are pretty good at dealing with management over there. Good luck to all.
 

320AV8R

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Deli Guy

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Hey Networ-King,
I can tell you that the dominant trend at NWA is that while there are guys on the street, high time flying is like having herpes. If youve got it, you don't advertise it. Like anywhere else some guys do it, but when it comes out in the open it is unpleasant. (To be totally honest with you, NW ALPA has kind of an off notion that high time does not affect furloughees--I defend them but they have their flaws like you have already noted.)
I hope ALPA does not drop the ball as well. Just try and let them have their turn here at NW. My resume is complete. I will be fixing up historic houses and running a deli. If I can keep flying--great. If not, I'll move out of the way for you young whippersnappers.
 

filejw

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You guys would have loved the ROPE on my last trip.Bid his month up to 100 hrs.I'm not against high time as it is part of the the contract and I fly contract.I use HT to help me bid some time off.But..............100 hrs?????
 
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General Lee

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I read also that NW wanted to furlough about 5600 stews and replace them on the Asian routes with cheap labor from Asia. That is amazing too.


As far as the NW pilots go, I see the senior ones selling out the juniors because they still have anuity style pensions. If NW were to drop the pensions, all of their senior guys would get about $2000 a month, when they were planning on $12000. They will use that as a bargaining chip. Scary.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Networ-King

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Deli Guy said:
Hey Networ-King,
I can tell you that the dominant trend at NWA is that while there are guys on the street, high time flying is like having herpes. If youve got it, you don't advertise it. Like anywhere else some guys do it, but when it comes out in the open it is unpleasant. (To be totally honest with you, NW ALPA has kind of an off notion that high time does not affect furloughees--I defend them but they have their flaws like you have already noted.)
I hope ALPA does not drop the ball as well. Just try and let them have their turn here at NW. My resume is complete. I will be fixing up historic houses and running a deli. If I can keep flying--great. If not, I'll move out of the way for you young whippersnappers.

Deli,

Noted..... and may I say that you are a very smart person for doing something outside of aviation. I too have ventured into the housing market and I have been lucky enough to move on to greener pastures... well... the pasture is pretty brown where Im at, but its my new favorite color ;). Heck who knows.... I might be on the street again here in another couple of months, but I refuse to get another gray hair over it. I really hope it all works out for the NWA guys, but ALPA has screwed way too many people in the last 4 years and as you know... pilots hold grudges. Good luck and hope Im wrong.

Just make sure you when you sleep you keep one eye on your "senior ALPA brothers". They might have a smile on their faces, but just like wise guys, when they stab you in the back they'll pose as a friend and have a big smile on their face.
 

ironspud

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General Lee said:
I read also that NW wanted to furlough about 5600 stews and replace them on the Asian routes with cheap labor from Asia. That is amazing too.


As far as the NW pilots go, I see the senior ones selling out the juniors because they still have anuity style pensions. If NW were to drop the pensions, all of their senior guys would get about $2000 a month, when they were planning on $12000. They will use that as a bargaining chip. Scary.


Bye Bye--General Lee
General:

You don't know how true this is.

During the great AA/TWA debate we (TWA) had a team we now call the "GLORRP" Team that was secretly negotiating as many TWA furloughs as they could in order to secure their own seniority. (No - they weren't all elected ALPA).

Really deep furloughs - that didn't have to happen.

These types are out there - and they pretend to "be your friend" and "on your side".

Trouble is, you might not be able to stop this very special kind of vermin.

I'm not much of a union person, but have learned the hard way what damage sellout citizens can do to you - most of them are your "union buds". Whew! It is truly awesome. Especially when they have the power (read union) to protect themselves.

Good luck.

PS: If you ever come across names that begin with letters like G-L-O-R-R-P - go hug your family. That's all you will have left.

PSS: Matter of fact, they are so capable, we think that they will be able to negotiate an even faster furlough of the 1181 from NW than management even wants. Management just needs to get this former TWA GLORRP team to MSP soon.
 

Deli Guy

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Hey Networ King, General Lee and Ironspud.
The senior guys are the big hurdle. I hope there is some fairness in this process, but all I can do is talk up my opinions, tell the other junior guys to do the same, and keep our eye on our rights. If they bone us after that, shame on them.
I think the pension issue is resolving itself and I think it is apparent to the older guys that there is safety in numbers. I think scope is becoming more important to them because they know that if their numbers get dwindled to a replacable number, they will be replaced. I think that is where our mgmt team has made a mistake. They are so overboard with their threats that the herd is circling, ass facing out and starting to kick.
Who knows?
 

doh

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I hope that is true!
 

dbrownie

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Deli Guy said:
Hey Networ King, General Lee and Ironspud.
The senior guys are the big hurdle. I hope there is some fairness in this process, but all I can do is talk up my opinions, tell the other junior guys to do the same, and keep our eye on our rights. If they bone us after that, shame on them.
The "senior guys" are a small percentage of the pilot group at NWA. Don't quote me on the exact numbers but somthing like 3/4 or 2/3 of the pilots are narrow body pilots. We have over 150 dc-9 (for now) and more 320/319s.

The wide body group might think their votes are worth more than the narrowbody votes but they are not. Of course we do not get to vote on every issue ( ie. the amfa sympathy strike) so we may get shafted any way.
in my opinion...

Dave B
 
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