Non-IFR..When is final approach determined?

[zugzug]

If you're on a straight in to a runway, at what distance or position are you actually on final approach? No FAF either. Just a VFR airport.


Thanks in advance

 

[pilotmiketx]

Riddle Instructor: 10 miles

Airline Pilot: 5 miles

 

[gkrangers]

Riddle Instructor: 10 miles

So true. The long, slow finals and wide patterns around here drive me nuts..

However long it takes you to configure your aircraft for landing and stabilize your approach is my answer, btw....

For radio call purposes...5 miles sounds good.

But your actual final approach "mode" would be what I said above, IMO. If thats a misguided notion, my apologies in advance.

 

[UGAflyer]

I wouldn't call final more than 5 miles out. Farther than that i would just call setting up for a straight in and call 5 mile final when appropriate.

 

[zugzug]

Nope

I need something more concrete. Are there any FAR's, AIM, ATC rules that give it some substance.

 

[Immelman]

I am not so sure that such an animal exists in the FARs. My personal rule of thumb would be to say where you would normally make a base to final turn is final approach, if in the pattern. In spam cans I try to, personally, keep that inside a mile.

 

[HoursHore]

I don't think a FAF is defined for Visual approaches. My guess would be on a stabilized final, On GS, aligned with centerline,On speed, Engines spooled up, in the final landing configuartion.

 

[zugzug]

No glideslope. Just a VFR airport.

 

[gkrangers]

No glideslope. Just a VFR airport.

He means glideslope not in the sense of the ILS instrument.

You are always on some kind of glide slope...you just get help on an ILS approach.

 

[zugzug]

The reason I am asking is all the talk about straight in finals.

Also, All glideslopes continue into infinity.

 

[BE200Driver]

May I ask why you need something more concrete? I'm not sure if it exists.

 

[zugzug]

Sure, I was calling on all the smarts:nuts: that are on this board to see if someone could summon up an NTSB, FAA, or what-have-you that would give the final approach segement defined boundries. This is on the lines of, an uncontrolled airport without any FAF or inst. approach.

 

[A Squared]

Sure, I was calling on all the smarts:nuts: that are on this board to see if someone could summon up an NTSB, FAA, or what-have-you that would give the final approach segement defined boundries. This is on the lines of, an uncontrolled airport without any FAF or inst. approach.

Oh. sorry, I thought you said Smart-a$$, and my ears perked right up :laugh:

Anyway, I've researched the issue before, and there is no definitive official answer. The issue came up in the context of: at what point does a right turn onto final become not a right hand pattern, but a straight in final. Like I said there is no definitive answer, but there was an case beforethe NTSB in which allegedly (according to John Yodice, AOPA's legal editor) the ALJ suggested the a turn to final 5-6 miles form the end of the runway would have been considered a "straight in" and not a right pattern. the airplane in question made a right turn onto final at 4 miles and that was found to be an illegal right pattern instead of a legal straight in approach.

I don't have the actual text of that NTSB decision but John Yodices words on the that issue may be seen in the Pilot Counsel column of the December 1995 AOPA pilot.

I don't know if any of that helps, but you may be looking for something which doesn't exist. Can you give us a little more information about why you are asking? that might help get a better answer ... I know there's a story behind this somewhere ..........

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Here is an interesting article on the topic. Doesn't really answer the root of the question, but none the less a good read.

http://www.airsport-corp.com/towarticles/feb94.html

Here's the AC for traffic patterns. Notice no real set hard definition or guidance to pilots having to use published patterns??

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/74C9017C9457E4AB862569D800780551?OpenDocument

 

[pilotmiketx]

The AIM only says to turn final not LESS than 1/4 mi from the end of the runway. I've never seen anything that says how far out that is. Just my opinion, but I'd say three criteria should be met:
1. Lined up on extended centerline
2. Descending (otherwise, it's called cruise flight)
3. Configured for landing (otherwise it's called descent)