No more SMO

[BeanFighter]

On Tuesday the SMO city attorney has responded with a "screw you" to the FAA demand of withdrawing the ban. The FAA's next expected move will be a cease and desist order.

I'd find an alternate for the next few years.

 

[400A]

On Tuesday the SMO city attorney has responded with a "screw you" to the FAA demand of withdrawing the ban. The FAA's next expected move will be a cease and desist order.

I'd find an alternate for the next few years.

This is their attitude about everything. Mario said if I rang the bell and did not respond properly that he would seize our aircraft and put me in jail.

Yep, you can't make any noise, but I would challenge you to go walk down by the pier and NOT find someone smoking dope right in the open on the sidewalk. When I saw it a Cop walked by and did nothing. I hate that place.

 

[BushwickBill]

Depends. All the girls behind the counter always acted like we were bugging them while the rampers were mad we asked for services. I think the only time I ever got good service was when I bought 1000 gallons of fuel then they couldnt wait to help.

I second that. I have always hated this airport. I've spend countless hours waiting around at Supermarine, now Atlantic with the same people. The service is bad and the gas is expensive.

This is not the only reason I don't like SMO the approach frankly sucks if there is any kind of weather, the runway is relatively short, the 11pm airport closure has nearly bitten us and the takeoff procedure isn't bad but is just another thing that can come back to haunt you if you do set off the noise alarm.

I would much rather go to VNY or BUR or LAX. All of them have precision approaches and enough runway if it is raining.

I knew this would eventually happen but I didn't think I would come so fast. Good riddance SMO!

 

[BEfly]

I'm there on a weekly basis. Sh!tty service, rude ppl, expensive gas (at least I get atlantic bucks now), no ramp space, useless approach when there's fog, looooong dalays getting out, noise police........ As a previous poster said, Good riddance.

 

[LJ45]

If we are light we can get in... except the wing .... can't taxi too far ...

What does that ^^^^ mean? An aircraft can only be in one category based on max landing weight, excluding the circling approach higher speed exception.

 

[ProFracPilot]

An aircraft can only be in one category based on max landing weight, excluding the circling approach higher speed exception.

What you state ain't necessarily so. The G-IVsp has an ASC that allows you to arbitrarily lower the max landing weight from 66K to 58500, thereby moving the certificated approach category from Cat D to Cat C. This is commonly known as the "Aspen ASC". It requires displaying a placard in the cockpit. Unfortunately it doesn't help with SMO ban.

 

[AeroBoy]

The G-IVsp has an ASC that allows you to arbitrarily lower the max landing weight from 66K to 58500, thereby moving the certificated approach category from Cat D to Cat C. This is commonly known as the "Aspen ASC". It requires displaying a placard in the cockpit.

So, in theory, this could be done to make a Cat C airplane a Cat B one??? What's the procedure to do such a thing?

 

[ProFracPilot]

So, in theory, this could be done to make a Cat C airplane a Cat B one??? What's the procedure to do such a thing?

I don't know about other airframe manufacturers. Gulfstream was able to achieve FAA approval for the G-IVsp through an Aircraft Service Change (ASC - their version of a Service Bulletin). To operate your G-IVsp as a Cat C airplane, you must have incorporated the ASC. This is simply a paperwork change, but it is FAA approved paperwork that is purchased from GAC.

 

[bailey3083]

Why are you guys trying so hard to go in there? LOL Head up to Burbank they are so much more nicer there.

 

[ableone]

The city says that they are going to enforce the ban in defiance of the FAA cease and desist order.

Should get interesting.

Anyone scheduled to fly in there soon?

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-faa24apr24,1,780534.story

 

[ILOVEBEER]

What does that ^^^^ mean? An aircraft can only be in one category based on max landing weight, excluding the circling approach higher speed exception.

Please point me to where I can find where it says that the category is based on max LANDING weight. The letter we received from the FAA says "max CERTIFIED weight".

Thanks

 

[ProFracPilot]

Please point me to where I can find where it says that the category is based on max LANDING weight. The letter we received from the FAA says "max CERTIFIED weight".

Thanks

From the AIM:

5-4-7. Instrument Approach Procedures ​

a. Aircraft approach category means a grouping of aircraft based on a speed of VREF, if specified, or if VREF is not specified, 1.3 VSO at the maximum certified landing weight. VREF, VSO, and the maximum certified landing weight are those values as established for the aircraft by the certification authority of the country of registry. A pilot must use the minima corresponding to the category determined during certification or higher. Helicopters may use Category A minima. If it is necessary to operate at a speed in excess of the upper limit of the speed range for an aircraft's category, the minimums for the higher category must be used. For example, an airplane which fits into Category B, but is circling to land at a speed of 145 knots, must use the approach Category D minimums. As an additional example, a Category A airplane (or helicopter) which is operating at 130 knots on a straight-in approach must use the approach Category C minimums. See the following category limits: ​

1. Category A: Speed less than 91 knots. ​

2. Category B: Speed 91 knots or more but less than 121 knots. ​

3. Category C: Speed 121 knots or more but less than 141 knots. ​

4. Category D: Speed 141 knots or more but less than 166 knots. ​

5. Category E: Speed 166 knots or more. ​

NOTE-​

VREF in the above definition refers to the speed used in establishing the approved landing distance under the airworthiness regulations constituting the type certification basis of the airplane, regardless of whether that speed for a particular airplane is 1.3 VSO, 1.23 VSR, or some higher speed required for airplane controllability. This speed, at the maximum certificated landing weight, determines the lowest applicable approach category for all approaches regardless of actual landing weight.​

 

[lookin4better]

Why are you guys trying so hard to go in there? LOL Head up to Burbank they are so much more nicer there.

I have to completely agree with you! Some guys just cant let things go and will not stop looking for ways to get into an airport no matter how difficult or unsafe.....example I was flying with a guy recently that would NOT give up on looking for a way to get the passengers into a place that COULD NOT be done legally, let alone safely. He just would NOT stop planning and feeling guilty about having to tell the pax "No" .....the only way he was going was alone

The "Complete the Mission" attitude is great for fighting a war, but in this buisness, it gets people killed.

 

[ProFracPilot]

...and will not stop looking for ways to get into an airport no matter how difficult or unsafe...

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the people who spend the big $$$ for these transporation tools and employ us to fly them do so for one primary reason: to get them safely as close to their desired destination as possible. While SMO might not be the "ideal" airport for some aircraft that doesn't mean operations in and out of there are done so with any real compromise to safety. 4987' dry is plenty for most corporate aircraft flown by capable pilots. Regardless of the spin the city may put on it, the banning of these aircraft is about noise, not operational safety.

The "Complete the Mission" attitude is great for fighting a war, but in this buisness, it gets people killed.

If "Completing the Mission" would require that safety be compromised, then I'm in complete agreement with you. In the context of normal ops at SMO, I don't see where safety is compromised.

 

[NYG-Flyer]

I think the point can go even further.. at what point does it stop.. what airport is next? If SMO gets away with it, accepting federal funds won't mean much. Other airports can make changes without FAA approval.