No more CHQ and GJs Jumpseaters

[ilinipilot]

I think the real culprit is Jet Blue. How can CHQ improve their pay scales when a bigger carrier with bigger equip has already proposed a lower pay scale. I can see the negotiations now, we would like XXX rates for our 190s. And bedford responds ummmm NO since Jet Blue pays less that is what we will pay you. We have no leg to stand on in negotiations with the Jet Blue rates. I havenothing against JB at all, I am just pointing out something.

 

[bvt1151]

The CHQ payrates and contract cetainly leave much to be desired (all regional CBAs do), but the pilot group can cetainly not be blamed for that. As CHQ pilots have explained, their rates were negotiated under duress, much like the Mesa contract thanks to the Freedumb pilots. I seriously doubt that the 190 rates at CHQ would look like they do now if Republic was not a threat to their job security at the time.

I'm so sick of hearing that the CHQ pilots could do nothing because of Republic. They allowed it to happen, and that is the fault of the CHQ pilots. They caved and gave in to demands and pay in order to "make up" for their prior mistake. Not only that, but CHQ negotiated their 190 rates prior to JetBlue. It could very easily be argued that they are the reason for JetBlue's low rates, rather than vice-versa. Seems CHQ has been right behind Mesa in the nose-dive for the bottom all along.

If management has you by the juevos, its your fault for putting them in their hands to begin with.

 

[h25b]

I'm so sick of hearing that the CHQ pilots could do nothing because of Republic. They allowed it to happen, and that is the fault of the CHQ pilots. They caved and gave in to demands and pay in order to "make up" for their prior mistake. Not only that, but CHQ negotiated their 190 rates prior to JetBlue. It could very easily be argued that they are the reason for JetBlue's low rates, rather than vice-versa. Seems CHQ has been right behind Mesa in the nose-dive for the bottom all along.

If management has you by the juevos, its your fault for putting them in their hands to begin with.

Please explain how CHQ "allowed" Republic to happen... They didn't allow that to happen. Please don't hurt yourself jumping on the bash CHQ bandwagon.

 

[bvt1151]

Please explain how CHQ "allowed" Republic to happen... They didn't allow that to happen. Please don't hurt yourself jumping on the bash CHQ bandwagon.

What did CHQ do to prevent the Republic threat? Nothing. They waited until the threat materialized, and then, when it was too late, they dealt with it and said there was nothing they could do. This is how they allowed it to happen.

The fact that they did nothing to proactively eliminate the Republic threat places the blame squarely on their shoulders. I do not buy the argument that things "were just different," because they weren't as it applies to this situation. They were fooled by a management tactic, and nothing else (except maybe the magical "fast upgrade" illusion). No other situation lended itself to CHQ's contract collapse except for management's genius move of creating a new airline. You'd think the pilots would have gotten the hint after the Freedom fiasco...but no... not Chautauqua. Now we see 190 rates below 50-seat rates. Nobody to blame but themselves, and they don't seem to care, as long as bigger, newer planes come.

 

[h25b]

What did CHQ do to prevent the Republic threat? Nothing. They waited until the threat materialized, and then, when it was too late, they dealt with it and said there was nothing they could do. This is how they allowed it to happen.

The fact that they did nothing to proactively eliminate the Republic threat places the blame squarely on their shoulders. I do not buy the argument that things "were just different," because they weren't as it applies to this situation. They were fooled by a management tactic, and nothing else (except maybe the magical "fast upgrade" illusion). No other situation lended itself to CHQ's contract collapse except for management's genius move of creating a new airline. You'd think the pilots would have gotten the hint after the Freedom fiasco...but no... not Chautauqua. Now we see 190 rates below 50-seat rates. Nobody to blame but themselves, and they don't seem to care, as long as bigger, newer planes come.

Possibly the dumbest assertion ever posted. O.K. Mr. Master of our Industry.... Just what does one do to prevent such a tactic ??? Please fill us all in because this would be valuable information. Last time I checked any airline can go out and try to get another certificate. No union is going to be able to prevent this.

I think that you need to grow up just a bit, taste a bit of the real world, and get back to me in about 5 more years after you start developing some of your own thoughts on these matters. You seemed pretty programmed with this type of garbage. If ANYONE has failed us all in this race to the bottom I would invite you to focus all of this anger at the mainline unions for giving the regionals jets to fly in the first place... I'm guessing you work for Comair and if you do you really should keep your mouth shut. Didn't you guys just vote in a concessions for jets package ???

I hope your username doesn't indicate you are a Purdue grad ...

 

[puttin4doh]

What did CHQ do to prevent the Republic threat? Nothing. They waited until the threat materialized, and then, when it was too late, they dealt with it and said there was nothing they could do. This is how they allowed it to happen.



This is the most uselessly vague language I've seen in awhile

"The problem is, they didn't deal with the situation when the situation needed to be dealt with. So, when they needed the deal, they had a situation and couldn't situate. Had they dealt with the deal earlier....situationally the deal could have been materialized." - Hi, I like to type words..word after wordy word

It's alright, though...he's training to be a cage fighter

 

[jumppilot]

(except maybe the magical "fast upgrade" illusion).

It isn't an illusion. Some people in 170 upgrade class have only been here 16 months...And that is just straight seniority, no J4J or anything like that.

 

[bvt1151]

Isn't this the way this board works? They can't refute your claims so they just call it stupid. And don't dare use a vocabulary... that would be horrible.


Crawl out of your protected world where everyone tells you that its not your fault and realize that there's noone to blame but yourself. You were forced to sign that contract because you didn't have the foresite to prevent it.

Comair's pay freeze was the fault of the Comair pilots not negotiating rolling furlough protection in their last contract. Anyone who tells you the contrary is denying the truth. I don't think you'll hear anyone arguing that Comair should have been able to get more out of their last contract, but they now have rolling furlough protection as a reactive measure to the strong threats that Comair would be dismantled. Do you understand how significant it is to guarantee the jobs of pilots who aren't even here yet? All this at apparently a very minimal cost to the Comair pilots, since they still have higher 50-seat pay than CHQ 90-seat pay.

But CHQ's largely substandard contract has absolutely nothing to do with Comair's pay freeze. It came years before the pay freeze, and logic actually lends evidence to the opposite. Rather, CHQ had nothing but higher contracts to build from, and they were trumped by management's hand because they failed to see it coming. The CHQ pilots got outplayed by management, plain and simple. Don't try to justify your shortcomings by saying you had no choice, or by publishing only Captain's rates. Chautauqua's contract is not up to standard because Chautauqua pilots failed to force one.

 

[BoilerUP]

Rather, CHQ had nothing but higher contracts to build from, and they were trumped by management's hand because they failed to see it coming. The CHQ pilots got outplayed by management, plain and simple.

Don't forget to mention Comair's contract was negotiated pre-9/11 while Chautauqua's was two years after. Spare us the "that shouldn't have had any effect" speech, because this board has heard that before.

I have one question - did YOU see "it" coming? If so, and you are so concerned and affected by all that has gone on, why did you sit idly by and not tell the oblivions at CHQ who failed to see what you seem to find so obvious? Isn't hindsight a lovely thing?

 

[I.P. Freley]

bvt, since you are the all-knowing arbiter of pilot group behavior...

What WERE the CHQ pilots supposed to do to "prevent" the company from starting another certificate? Short of hiring hit men to eliminate all of upper management? Gas everyone at HQ, maybe?

Seems to me they did exactly what they could, which is prevent any flying done for the entire RAH empire from being flown by anyone that is not on THEIR seniority list... Thus preventing the possibility of a b-scale or another list for whipsaw purposes.

Please illuminate us to the PROPER way they should've handled the situation. Since you are so critical of what they did, tell us the bvt way.