NMB to ASA: keep negotiating

[Blucher]

"ASA DOESN'T DESERVE TO GO AWAY,..........ASA MANAGEMENT deserves to go away. Since we have no power over that and have no power over the NMB, we've got to change our course and take a more realistic path"-Geekmaster

I'm not so sure about that. Now that the employee stock program is in effect many of us own stock and are therefore shareholders in Skywest Inc. Why not start a grass roots campaign among the shareholders to vote no-confidence in ASA management and ask for their removal?

-Blucher

 

[buscap]

I'm not so sure about that. Now that the employee stock program is in effect many of us own stock and are therefore shareholders in Skywest Inc. Why not start a grass roots campaign among the shareholders to vote no-confidence in ASA management and ask for their removal?

-Blucher[/quote]

I hate to chime in so late in the game, but let's remember here, the ASA management is doing exactly what Skywest Inc. is telling them to do. Every screw-up and contract abuse, loss of quality of life, etc. has been owned by the folks in St. George for quite some time.

And before that it was all owned by Delta.

At least the BUCK stopped with George and John.

Don't fall for this Good Cop / Bad Cop game being played.

Skywest management could buy us off with just alittle bit of goodwill and QOL improvements and not a whole lot of cash. This game being played is all theirs at this point.

 

[601Pilot]

You assume that just because most people aren't willing to screw themselves by attempting to screw the company that they don't want the contract to be completed. I want nothing more than the contract to be settled, and to move on. What I am not willing to do is run the company into the ground in the process. It is lunacy to think that the company will be somehow driven to pay us more if we cost them more. Stupid beyond belief!

Alot of people are doing things online to help the cause and I have yet to hear about anyone getting screwed by the company; have you? It's not like it takes much effort to completely disrupt the operation.

The company wants this contract settled so Jerry can tell any new business out there that the costs are known. Right now, the costs are a big ole' question mark, because both the company and the union are at the mercy of the mediation board. The company does not like being in this position, and that in itself is enough to push them to get this contract settled.

Jerry can tell new business he has fixed costs for as long as he wants. He knows the NMB will drag out the process as long as he wants or needs to keep the business running. I think you put way too much hope that the NMB will bring us to closure anytime soon.

Let us play a hypothetical, with a few assumptions:

Assumption 1: Jerry Atkin will shrink the company if our costs are too high.

Assumption 2: If the contract is settled at the union proposal the costs will be too high.

Given those assumptions, the company would be ethically bound to attempt to get the rates down to an acceptable level. The management has the responsibility to protect the livelihood of each of the employees, and if they sign off on a contract that they truly believe will cause ASA to shrink, they would be doing something morally reprehensible.

I don't think our management believe that is part of their responsibility. Their job is to maximize profits while doing just enough for their employees (pay/benefits) to stay operational. I don't believe any "moral" tests are being applied during the operation of the business including negotations.

(That being said, I think it is morally reprehensible for our pilot group to do anything (such as illegal job actions) to cost the company money, and to jeaopardize the remaining employee's jobs. But that's for another post.)

Luckily for you and I, there are a few people out there that disagree with you.

So there you have it. I believe that we should do the best job we can, make the most money we can for the company in the most efficient way possible. Basically, we should do our jobs, and continue the negotiation process until it is complete. At least then I can shave in the morning...and sleep at night.

If doing nothing lets you sleep at night, then so be it. I would sleep better knowing there was a concerted effort to put pressure on the company.

 

[jstyle13]

You're 100% correct. How could I have been so stupid! It doesn't matter at all how much money we bring in for the company. ASA makes money even if NO planes fly on time or get where they are supposed to go. Even if it didn't make money, they would certainly pay our paychecks anyway.

Come on people. This is a business. If no money is made, the company fails, and we LOSE OUR JOBS. Intentionally wasting money is unethical, and certainly not in our best interest.

Right. I forgot that we are losing millions every quarter and that by ALPA asking for a ~5-8% pay raise that would be the nail in the coffin for the cash bleeding wound that is Skywest. Do you really think the company can't afford to give you a resonable raise???

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Right. I forgot that we are losing millions every quarter and that by ALPA asking for a ~5-8% pay raise that would be the nail in the coffin for the cash bleeding wound that is Skywest. Do you really think the company can't afford to give you a resonable raise???

The nail in the coffin isn't that the 5%-8% would drain our money supply. The problem is that 5% to 8% will cause Jerry Atkin and the stockholders to believe that we are too expensive, and they will phase out our portion of the operation. Bye bye union, bye bye job. Get it yet?

And yes, we may be stockholders, but we aren't Stockholders with a capital S... In other words, your few thousand dollars of stock do not come even close to the influence of the guy that owns 5 million dollars in stock... That guy doesn't give a rats butt about your payrate, and he wants the minimum costs. Otherwise, he will vote every time to phase out your job to a less expensive division of the company.

Our only defense is to do our jobs the best we can, and to keep competitive within the industry. That may mean that ASA is no longer a "Career Company". It certainly will mean that we do not have industry leading pay rates.

Either way, I need ASA until I get my PIC time up to snuff, so don't screw me out of a job just because you want 5% more a year.

 

[Tomct]

The nail in the coffin isn't that the 5%-8% would drain our money supply. The problem is that 5% to 8% will cause Jerry Atkin and the stockholders to believe that we are too expensive, and they will phase out our portion of the operation. Bye bye union, bye bye job. Get it yet?

And yes, we may be stockholders, but we aren't Stockholders with a capital S... In other words, your few thousand dollars of stock do not come even close to the influence of the guy that owns 5 million dollars in stock... That guy doesn't give a rats butt about your payrate, and he wants the minimum costs. Otherwise, he will vote every time to phase out your job to a less expensive division of the company.

Our only defense is to do our jobs the best we can, and to keep competitive within the industry. That may mean that ASA is no longer a "Career Company". It certainly will mean that we do not have industry leading pay rates.

Either way, I need ASA until I get my PIC time up to snuff, so don't screw me out of a job just because you want 5% more a year.

Dude, maybe you better re-read the last paragraph of your post. Who is thinking ONLY of THEMSELVES? I....I.....I. You just pissed on everything that you so "eloquently" stated the last 2 or 3 posts. :laugh: What a TOOL! Good Lord, I think you fell in the Kool-Aid bowl and are a bit punch drunk!:laugh:

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Dude, maybe you better re-read the last paragraph of your post. Who is thinking ONLY of THEMSELVES? I....I.....I. You just pissed on everything that you so "eloquently" stated the last 2 or 3 posts. :laugh: What a TOOL! Good Lord, I think you fell in the Kool-Aid bowl and are a bit punch drunk!:laugh:

You would have to be a moron not to look out for yourself in this industry. As with most career decisions, you have to place yourself first. This isn't a marriage. (Anyone who claims to be looking out for the group, and not themselves is either fooling themselves, or lying.)

I believe that, generally, whatever is in the best interest of the individual is in the best interest of the group. (In this particular case, not all cases.) It is in my personal best interest to get a contract settled that will stimulate growth, and not shrink the company. That is good for the majority of the group too.

It is in a few people's best interest to get the highest rates possible, because they are close to retirement, and need high rates more than they need growth to keep this job and move up the ladder.

What is in no one's personal interest or group interest is to cost the company money for no apparent reason.

 

[jstyle13]

Either way, I need ASA until I get my PIC time up to snuff, so don't screw me out of a job just because you want 5% more a year.

I'm an FO too who needs PIC time so I can move onto another, better company hopefully one day. However, I'm not a snively b!tch who wants to vote for some peice of crap contract in the hopes that as soon its done Skywest will shower us with 25 new airplanes so I can upgrade and move on to wherever.

To me, the pilot group has leverage right now because we are loosing a lot of guys every month, more and more majors are hiring, and regionals are having a hard time staffing and hiring new pilots. I don't beleive that JA will slowly replace all of the ASA flying just because we got most of what we wanted in a new contract that we have been fighting for four years.

 

[Sinca3]

Either way, I need ASA until I get my PIC time up to snuff, so don't screw me out of a job just because you want 5% more a year.

Why didn't you go to MESA or TSA or even Chautauqua? They had and continue to have fast upgrades. If you knew they were piss poor companies to work for (not including Chautauqua) why would you try and make ASA into one of those companies?

 

[VeeOne]

Right. I forgot that we are losing millions every quarter and that by ALPA asking for a ~5-8% pay raise that would be the nail in the coffin for the cash bleeding wound that is Skywest. Do you really think the company can't afford to give you a resonable raise???

The total we are asking for is more than a 5-8% raise- ask your reps what the total raise in pay will be for the 50 seater.

 

[JoeMerchant]

1. What would our profit margin be if we got everything we are asking for?

2. The profit margin of ASA was almost 17% in 1994. Today it is less than 5% - note I am talking profit margin, not operating profit margin.

3. The profit margin of ASA will be negative if we don't "win" the flying. The actual flying we do is a "loss leader". The flying itself is not profitable. In fact, most domestic legacy flying today is not profitable. The only value it has is that of feed, specifically international

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Why didn't you go to MESA or TSA or even Chautauqua? They had and continue to have fast upgrades. If you knew they were piss poor companies to work for (not including Chautauqua) why would you try and make ASA into one of those companies?

Because I wanted to be in the Southeast, and I wanted the option of staying here for a career. That still isn't out of the question, as long as we get our issues with SkyWest straightened out. The purchase by SkyW really shook me up, and it made me switch goals. Now, I want options.

I do NOT want ASA to be a Mesa or a Chatauqua. I want it to continue to be what it is, a great company, with great people to work with. The thing is, I believe for us to stay a great company, we need to remain competitive. My position on the contract negotiations is based on wanting to stay here, but with the option to leave if things go sour with SkyW in 3-5 years.

 

[Tomct]

Because I wanted to be in the Southeast, and I wanted the option of staying here for a career. That still isn't out of the question, as long as we get our issues with SkyWest straightened out. The purchase by SkyW really shook me up, and it made me switch goals. Now, I want options.

I do NOT want ASA to be a Mesa or a Chatauqua. I want it to continue to be what it is, a great company, with great people to work with. The thing is, I believe for us to stay a great company, we need to remain competitive. My position on the contract negotiations is based on wanting to stay here, but with the option to leave if things go sour with SkyW in 3-5 years.

A GREAT COMPANY?uke: ASA has been a lot of things, but NEVER a GREAT COMPANY! They have never realized the hard working employee's here or the large sacrifices that most have made to be here. So long as the upper mgmnt pukes get their huge bonus checks, all is well here at Camp ASSA! I will agree with you on the "Great People" (minus Joey, whiney cheese and AZZdriver)!

 

[VeeOne]

A GREAT COMPANY?uke: ASA has been a lot of things, but NEVER a GREAT COMPANY! They have never realized the hard working employee's here or the large sacrifices that most have made to be here. So long as the upper mgmnt pukes get their huge bonus checks, all is well here at Camp ASSA! I will agree with you on the "Great People" (minus Joey, whiney cheese and AZZdriver)!

I feel bad for the next employer that sticks you on their pay roll................

 

[ASADFW7]

I feel bad for the next employer that sticks you on their pay roll................

Amen to that brother

 

[Tomct]

I feel bad for the next employer that sticks you on their pay roll................

And what was incorrect with my statement. Let me guess...you loved the "hockey puck" cookies that we received? No wait...the closing of 3 bases inside of 3 years? No wait...scheduling telling you to grieve "their goat rope" knowing full well that it will take months if not years to get resolved? BL getting a Boatload of cash/stock options all the while we hang in the wind with this contract? Your right...this is a GREAT COMPANY!!

 

[Tomct]

Amen to that brother

Speaking from the right seat at LUV? I give respect when I receive it! You should know this seeing how you are at SWA now...land of the BELOVED EMPLOYEE'S!

 

[VeeOne]

And what was incorrect with my statement. Let me guess...you loved the "hockey puck" cookies that we received? No wait...the closing of 3 bases inside of 3 years? No wait...scheduling telling you to grieve "their goat rope" knowing full well that it will take months if not years to get resolved? BL getting a Boatload of cash/stock options all the while we hang in the wind with this contract? Your right...this is a GREAT COMPANY!!

I don't really think it is going to sink in a whole lot for you, but if you think ASA is the only one with these sorts of problems, they're not. Southwest is all happy right now because they are making money- wait until they aren't. I'm sure you will come back with some Kool Aid laden answer about how they won't do anything to their employees like put the squeez on scheduling durring negotiations, take pay cuts, no executive bonuses, etc. Sorry brother, but no matter where you go, it is an airline, it will have all the same problems as ASA. If you can't handle the life, then find another career. Sorry to say it, but you are going to run out of airlines to burn down...........Welcome to 121. Oh, and if you think we're the only ones to have protracted contract talks, just watch what happens with some of our brothers at other carriers. You might want to do some research too on other contracts and their longevity to negotiate.

 

[Tomct]

I don't really think it is going to sink in a whole lot for you, but if you think ASA is the only one with these sorts of problems, they're not. Southwest is all happy right now because they are making money- wait until they aren't. I'm sure you will come back with some Kool Aid laden answer about how they won't do anything to their employees like put the squeez on scheduling durring negotiations, take pay cuts, no executive bonuses, etc. Sorry brother, but no matter where you go, it is an airline, it will have all the same problems as ASA. If you can't handle the life, then find another career. Sorry to say it, but you are going to run out of airlines to burn down...........Welcome to 121. Oh, and if you think we're the only ones to have protracted contract talks, just watch what happens with some of our brothers at other carriers. You might want to do some research too on other contracts and their longevity to negotiate.

Ughh! I quit! It is like talking to the wall. Good Luck with all the "Kumbaiyah Love" that YOU feel in the air. FOCKER.....OUT!!

 

[shamrock]

Bumpedy bump