NJI Questions

[pilot772]

NJI pilots are protected by the McCaskill-Bond Amendment.... The VSL date of hire integration has not been "given" to them. It's the law...plain and simple.

I haven't researched McCaskill-Bond but it has come up in some threads with rumors of JetBlue merging. I believe it states that both merging parties have to be represented by a union. In other words Non-union NJI would not be protected by this legislation.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I think it's pretty lucky, fortunate and kind...

That is your perspective.

POW's in Vietnam felt lucky to get a bowl of rice once a month with no fecal material in it too.

I've said before, you wanted an arranged marriage, you got one. Hope you like your new bride...

 

[Abbey]

The NJI pilots were taken care of. Those that would not be around after the furlough were all upgraded, if one desired. Many of which are years away in seniority from holding a Beechjet Captain position. Nice.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Which only proves you don't know the history of Gulfstream Shares/Executive Jet International/Netjets International.

Let me explain this again. Gulfstream REFUSED to front the money and the airplanes to RTS in 1995 unless they were flown by typed, experienced, and non-union crews. The customers wanted Gulfstreams and the profit per airframe was potentially WAY higher so RTS agreed to create a separate division. It was NEVER about whipsawing the pilot groups. We can argue about the rest and whether this is a good or bad deal but it was NOT about busting the union.

Gut,

I have long heard the story as you recant it here but...

I've never heard of a aircraft sales deal in the history of aircraft sales deals that let Unions get in the aircraft builder making a sale.

Money always trumps principle.

Always stunk like labor busting to me. JMHO, but I choose never to simply believe the story laid out by someone else as gospel...

We are together now... that's the important thing.

 

[jppt2000]

That is your perspective.

POW's in Vietnam felt lucky to get a bowl of rice once a month with no fecal material in it too.

I've said before, you wanted an arranged marriage, you got one. Hope you like your new bride...

Hope you like the groomimp:.
It's been said many times in the past, the sign of a good merger is when everyone on both sides feels equally screwed.

I know it'll be tough to do, but let's all make the best of this.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gut,

I have long heard the story as you recant it here but...

I've never heard of a aircraft sales deal in the history of aircraft sales deals that let Unions get in the aircraft builder making a sale.

Money always trumps principle.

Always stunk like labor busting to me. JMHO, but I choose never to simply believe the story laid out by someone else as gospel...

We are together now... that's the important thing.

Fly, email Billy N. He'll answer and he'll confirm the story. Gulfstream was NOTORIOUSLY anti-union then and they were extremely protective of their brand image. They weren't exactly on board with the whole fractional concept and they were being asked to front TENS OF MILLIONS worth of airplanes to RTS. It wasn't a union busting thing on RTS' part. If it had been, he would have pushed harder for the G 200 to fall under the NJI banner (going to court if necessary) and he would have leveraged that fleet in 2005. He didn't do either.

Going forward, it's all water under the proverbial bridge. Some will think we got too sweet a deal and some will think we got shafted. As with all things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Fly, email Billy N. He'll answer and he'll confirm the story. Gulfstream was NOTORIOUSLY anti-union then and they were extremely protective of their brand image. They weren't exactly on board with the whole fractional concept and they were being asked to front TENS OF MILLIONS worth of airplanes to RTS. It wasn't a union busting thing on RTS' part. If it had been, he would have pushed harder for the G 200 to fall under the NJI banner (going to court if necessary) and he would have leveraged that fleet in 2005. He didn't do either.

Going forward, it's all water under the proverbial bridge. Some will think we got too sweet a deal and some will think we got shafted. As with all things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Gut,

For the life of me, I cannot recall a major aircraft manufacturer making a decision over billions in sales over who will fly them. Or what color their skin is. Or where the pilots live. Or what kind of movies they are into.

GD is in the business of selling airplanes and if they passed up a deal over something as petty as Union pilots, I would wager that management team wouldn't last long.

Again, money talks.

Tribal lore is tribal lore. It's great entertainment value. I'd no sooner believe anything Bill Noe said than my stock broker. They are both trying to sell an angle.

I read the facts and GD doesn't make money off of principles, they sell planes.

In 2004, if RTS would have wanted to add more fuel to the fire by sending the G200 to NJI, so be it. He'd of stoked a larger mess than he had.

 

[gutshotdraw]

GD didn't own Gulfstream in 1995. Wayyyyy different mindset then.

 

[gret]

How is Forstman Little different than GD? Why would they have a different mindset? If anything, quite the opposite. They would sell their children if a buck was involved.

 

[gutshotdraw]

At the time, the concept was unproven and Gulfstream was fearful of damaging their brand name in the corporate world if there was a problem. At the time, there were very few Exec Jet guys with any large aircraft or international experience and fewer still with and Gulfstream experience. To ramp up the operation quickly, EJA and Gulfstream formed Gulfstream Shares and went out and hired guys that had been flying G-II's, III's, and IV's for a couple of decades.

 

[NachoMamma]

At the time, there were very few Exec Jet guys with any large aircraft or international experience and fewer still with and Gulfstream experience. To ramp up the operation quickly, EJA and Gulfstream formed Gulfstream Shares and went out and hired guys that had been flying G-II's, III's, and IV's for a couple of decades.

Yeah because the Gulfstream was waaaaay more difficult to fly than any other silly biz jet...what a bunch of crap.

 

[Partyfoul]

Yeah because the Gulfstream was waaaaay more difficult to fly than any other silly biz jet...what a bunch of crap.

Nobody said it was. When Gulfstream fronts the money to help get it started they can have a say in who flys them.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Gulfstream was NOTORIOUSLY anti-union then and they were extremely protective of their brand image.

I can confirm this personally. My brother was instrumental in delivery of the early Gulfstream aircraft to EJI. With over 30 years of experience flying Gulfstream aircraft for the manufacture and numerous corporate clientele, he has told several times the exact same story you've heard from Gut. And he plays golf with the people who bought these jets, so you cant get much better information than that.

Ever wondered why the worlds premier private jet builder moved their entire operation to Savannah, GA? Do a little research on that and you will discover just how anti-union Gulfstream was.

Just the truth... no spin here.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Yeah because the Gulfstream was waaaaay more difficult to fly than any other silly biz jet...what a bunch of crap.

I know 4 NJA FO cross-overs who will tell you it is the hardest airplane they have ever learned to fly.

and I question whether they actually can fly it.

 

[gutshotdraw]

just the truth... No spin here.

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