NJI Questions

[RJ Bum]

the NJI pilots got a very sweet deal.

Yes they did, too bad a lot of them dont realize it. As a dues paying member on the street, I'm glad that I'm not in the crew lounge listening to NJI guys bitching. I'm not sure how I would react.

It's amazing that they complain about "having" to join the union in the same sentence of talking about how their day went. Dont they realize NJI was formed as a union busting tactic, and by getting hired there they were part of that tactic? (I'm refering to the earlier hires) Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Yes they did, too bad a lot of them dont realize it. As a dues paying member on the street, I'm glad that I'm not in the crew lounge listening to NJI guys bitching. I'm not sure how I would react.

It's amazing that they complain about "having" to join the union in the same sentence of talking about how their day went. Dont they realize NJI was formed as a union busting tactic, and by getting hired there they were part of that tactic? (I'm refering to the earlier hires) Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

Which only proves you don't know the history of Gulfstream Shares/Executive Jet International/Netjets International.

Let me explain this again. Gulfstream REFUSED to front the money and the airplanes to RTS in 1995 unless they were flown by typed, experienced, and non-union crews. The customers wanted Gulfstreams and the profit per airframe was potentially WAY higher so RTS agreed to create a separate division. It was NEVER about whipsawing the pilot groups. We can argue about the rest and whether this is a good or bad deal but it was NOT about busting the union.

 

[jtf]

It might not have been a union busting tool when started, but it was a threat to the union that was identified and stopped by the union. It could have been folded into NJA long ago without Gulfstream or whoever was trying to pull the strings doing anything to stop it if RS wanted to do so. He wanted more leverage in negotiations and that is what he had. I feel bad for the pilots that hired on expecting to be G captains, but that is all part of the pilot game/ profession. I would feel more sorry if I was furloughed and all new growth was going to NJI. Now I don't have to worry about the second part, but there is no pilot job you don't have to worry about getting furloughed from.

 

[hunkerdown]

Not to fan any flames but.....

I here some grumblings coming from the NJI side about joining up with NJA. Some guys not wanting to join a union, some guys not happy because they wanted to upgrade in their Gulfstream and now they might upgrade in an Ultra.

Now the flame: I think it's pretty lucky, fortunate and kind that a non-union group of pilots were given date of hire in an integration and that their pilot's interests were partially represented by a union that they don't pay for. I understand that the reason that this was done was to prevent infighting with a new group of pilots and to make things "fair". I just don't want to hear any grumbling. There are hundreds of great NJA-union-paying guys that got dumped in the furlough while non-union guys were protected and were given "virtual seniority". No grumbling please from NJI guys who have their jobs, GV captains that are junior to a chunk of NJA FOs and NJI FOs who will be getting paid more and holding their GV/GIV while NJA FOs hold smaller aircraft with less pay.

Ok, let's here it. My "shields are up".

NJI pilots are protected by the McCaskill-Bond Amendment.... The VSL date of hire integration has not been "given" to them. It's the law...plain and simple.

 

[gutshotdraw]

NJI pilots are protected by the McCaskill-Bond Amendment.... The VSL date of hire integration has not been "given" to them. It's the law...plain and simple.

McCaskill-Bond wouldn't necessarily have given us date of hire because it looks at a number of factors but it would prevent the kind of BS staple job that TWA got (which more than a few NJA guys would have preferred in this case). But I see your point.

The argument had always been "We're a single carrier. We all work for the same company. We all fly the same people." Therefore, I got hired by the "same company" 11 years ago and my seniority should be based on that date. To argue anything else would be hypocritical. Fortunately, the NJASAP leadership understood that.

Ironic though, isn't it, that the NMB ruled three months ago that we WERE NOT a single carrier for the purpose of collective bargaining when the F/A's petitioned for a ruling. Could have made life even more, shall we say, interesting? Moot point now with the move to eliminate the NJI certificate (which was the object of the exercise -- political, not financial considerations).



Sadly, by the way, only 64 of the 148 NJI flight attendants voted for AFA representation and will now be thrown under Jimmy Hoffa Jr.'s bus....

 

[pilot772]

NJI pilots are protected by the McCaskill-Bond Amendment.... The VSL date of hire integration has not been "given" to them. It's the law...plain and simple.

I haven't researched McCaskill-Bond but it has come up in some threads with rumors of JetBlue merging. I believe it states that both merging parties have to be represented by a union. In other words Non-union NJI would not be protected by this legislation.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I think it's pretty lucky, fortunate and kind...

That is your perspective.

POW's in Vietnam felt lucky to get a bowl of rice once a month with no fecal material in it too.

I've said before, you wanted an arranged marriage, you got one. Hope you like your new bride...

 

[Abbey]

The NJI pilots were taken care of. Those that would not be around after the furlough were all upgraded, if one desired. Many of which are years away in seniority from holding a Beechjet Captain position. Nice.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Which only proves you don't know the history of Gulfstream Shares/Executive Jet International/Netjets International.

Let me explain this again. Gulfstream REFUSED to front the money and the airplanes to RTS in 1995 unless they were flown by typed, experienced, and non-union crews. The customers wanted Gulfstreams and the profit per airframe was potentially WAY higher so RTS agreed to create a separate division. It was NEVER about whipsawing the pilot groups. We can argue about the rest and whether this is a good or bad deal but it was NOT about busting the union.

Gut,

I have long heard the story as you recant it here but...

I've never heard of a aircraft sales deal in the history of aircraft sales deals that let Unions get in the aircraft builder making a sale.

Money always trumps principle.

Always stunk like labor busting to me. JMHO, but I choose never to simply believe the story laid out by someone else as gospel...

We are together now... that's the important thing.

 

[jppt2000]

That is your perspective.

POW's in Vietnam felt lucky to get a bowl of rice once a month with no fecal material in it too.

I've said before, you wanted an arranged marriage, you got one. Hope you like your new bride...

Hope you like the groomimp:.
It's been said many times in the past, the sign of a good merger is when everyone on both sides feels equally screwed.

I know it'll be tough to do, but let's all make the best of this.