NJI Questions

[HiSpeedFlyer]

I've said before, you wanted an arranged marriage, you got one. Hope you like your new bride...

Kinda reminds of that old joke when the new covict goes into his jail cell and is greeted by his new cellmate"you wanna be the husband or do you wanna be the wife?". Giggle giggle.

Both sides aren't totally happy, so I think it may go well. Be patient folks, the ride has just left the station.

 

[gret]

I can confirm this personally. My brother was instrumental in delivery of the early Gulfstream aircraft to EJI. With over 30 years of experience flying Gulfstream aircraft for the manufacture and numerous corporate clientele, he has told several times the exact same story you've heard from Gut. And he plays golf with the people who bought these jets, so you cant get much better information than that.

Ever wondered why the worlds premier private jet builder moved their entire operation to Savannah, GA? Do a little research on that and you will discover just how anti-union Gulfstream was.

Just the truth... no spin here.

I guess we should all take this to the bank. Not sure what else they is to say.

If he plays golf with these guys and Gulfstream is the premier private jet builder...how can anyone dispute this?

 

[jppt2000]

I know 4 NJA FO cross-overs who will tell you it is the hardest airplane they have ever learned to fly.

and I question whether they actually can fly it.

Wow, attacking pilot's flying abilities, behind their backs.
Most of those pilots have been at NJA almost two to three times longer than you.

 

[NachoMamma]

I know 4 NJA FO cross-overs who will tell you it is the hardest airplane they have ever learned to fly.

*** YAWN ***
(That's me being really impressed) :laugh:

 

[av8trinabarrel]

I know 4 NJA FO cross-overs who will tell you it is the hardest airplane they have ever learned to fly.

and I question whether they actually can fly it.

Compared to most of the crap cessna puts out, it might be difficult, but anyone with RJ time or bigger, then a G training event is nothing more than 6 weeks of getting kicked in the nuts like any other airplane.

 

[Mountain Troll]

Well, for those that never have done it, guess you will never know if it is complicated or easy. But you keep speculating you tail off if that makes you happy. For me, the Gulfstream was more difficult than the BBJ or 757. Also, didn't Boeing make NJA hire some people to fly the BBJ for a year or two for IOE? I think those guys went elsewhere eventually, but my memory may be wrong, Boeing wouldn't sell the airframes without more experience in the front.....

 

[Mountain Troll]

Now further, if you look at what the actual experience level to include number of type ratings, total time. number of ocean crossings, continents operated on and so on, the NJI/EJI pilot applicant and new hire by far exceed NJA/EJA in comparison. Secondly, the posted minimums are just that, the least you can have. NJI/EJI has never hired anyone with just the minimum, oh, excuse me, I am wrong, they came from NJA, look at your LOA's. And finally, NJI/EJI never has had a recruiter or a program to recruit pilots. NJA/EJA has in the past recruited pilots, I even heard of a guy who chased a pilot into the bathroom at an FBO to get him to apply. Met a NJA guy a few years back whose only other job was a CFI at a mom n pop operation. NJI/EJI NEVER has done that. Now, attack me at your pleasure, it doesn't change the facts.

 

[Mountain Troll]

Sorry, I forgot. I know a few guys who were hired at NJA, still work there, are happy there. I have flown with them and would trust the lives of my family with them at any time. I am not a NJA hater.

 

[jppt2000]

Denial
Denial that there was an ongoing "issue" between two pilot groups during 2005 and before.
Denial that the merger IBB LOA was going to happen
Some folks threatened to leave if it happened, are still here.
Shock that maybe some folks were mislead by their leadership, maybe told what they wanted to hear.
Now we see posts like We're better pilots than you are.
Were you told that too?
Give it up, how petty.
Desperate

 

[gutshotdraw]

And you have missed the point of the discussion entirely...

 

[old*art]

Originally Posted by wolfpackpilot
I know 4 NJA FO cross-overs who will tell you it is the hardest airplane they have ever learned to fly.

and I question whether they actually can fly it.



He is correct about at least two and its not just the G .. but he also cannot say he was not warned !!!

 

[G4dude]

I believe we at NJI are being treated fairly during this integration, even as almost all of us are chagrined at being forced to join a union. However, the trips we fly are often quite difficult, and overseas experience was crucial during start up of NJI. The airplane, by the way, is enjoyable, but challenging to fly smoothly.
I think we all will get along fine, as most of the NJA crossovers are fitting in well. Let's hope we recall the furloughees soon!

 

[Pervis]

So now we're back to 'mine's harder than yours'? I was in my early 20s flying close to the East German buffer zone doing 480 kts groung at 200' AGL with very little experience. Amazing how we all learned so quickly, both conventional and nuke tactics, while listening to the RAWS reminding us how many Soviet missiles were along that border.

My point is that most pilots adapt very well to whatever equipment and airspace rules they encounter very well. There are always a few who slip through. I'll wager even some origional EJI/NJI folks fall into that category as well. Like the few who are very senior FOs who couldn't upgrade if their lives depended on it? And those who continue to try and sell the "difficulty" probably fall into that category as well.

 

[jppt2000]

So now we're back to 'mine's harder than yours'? I was in my early 20s flying close to the East German buffer zone doing 480 kts groung at 200' AGL with very little experience. Amazing how we all learned so quickly, both conventional and nuke tactics, while listening to the RAWS reminding us how many Soviet missiles were along that border.

My point is that most pilots adapt very well to whatever equipment and airspace rules they encounter very well. There are always a few who slip through. I'll wager even some origional EJI/NJI folks fall into that category as well. Like the few who are very senior FOs who couldn't upgrade if their lives depended on it? And those who continue to try and sell the "difficulty" probably fall into that category as well.

I listened to two NJI crews about 5+ years ago tell me they were "sure" the G200 was coming to the NJI side of the house because it was a Gulfstream product and Gulfstream won't let union folks fly "their" product.
It seems to me, many NJI folks were fed a huge amount of "you're a cut above", problem is a few folks still believe it, and profess it.
It's amazing how some folks still cling to the "but we were told this and promised that".
Next we'll see posts along the lines....
Europe and Asia will deny NJA access to their airspace because of the continuing onslaught of lost non-NJI piloted Gulfstreams blundering across borders, causing international incidents.
Please stop with the fear mongering.
International flying is not as tough as you make it out to be.

I don't think I missed the point of this thread at all.

 

[Helmsalee]

JPPT is right.

Back when I was at Delta, there was a period when new hires were going to JFK 767ER FO. No one wanted to commute and be junior in the seat. On the Delta pilot forum there was much wailing and crying. "They can't be international pilots with no experience." A senior Capt answered this way. "If an MD88 Capt can get by with one new hire FO, I guess I can manage with two." They did just fine. It's called training. Most pilots are sponges, they will absorb what you teach them. The problem comes when you think they already know something before you start. Maybe, maybe not.

It's similar to another thing that was common at Delta. Military guys thought they were superior to pilots with civilian backgrounds and vice versa. As a check pilot for a number of years, I can tell you neither were right. Each group brought a different skill set to the party. Neither were complete. The good ones, from both sides, worked hard to fill the gaps and become the complete package. The rest were the ones who claimed to be better due to where they came from.

Just MHO,
Helm