NJI Questions

[old*art]

Originally Posted by wolfpackpilot
I know 4 NJA FO cross-overs who will tell you it is the hardest airplane they have ever learned to fly.

and I question whether they actually can fly it.



He is correct about at least two and its not just the G .. but he also cannot say he was not warned !!!

 

[G4dude]

I believe we at NJI are being treated fairly during this integration, even as almost all of us are chagrined at being forced to join a union. However, the trips we fly are often quite difficult, and overseas experience was crucial during start up of NJI. The airplane, by the way, is enjoyable, but challenging to fly smoothly.
I think we all will get along fine, as most of the NJA crossovers are fitting in well. Let's hope we recall the furloughees soon!

 

[Pervis]

So now we're back to 'mine's harder than yours'? I was in my early 20s flying close to the East German buffer zone doing 480 kts groung at 200' AGL with very little experience. Amazing how we all learned so quickly, both conventional and nuke tactics, while listening to the RAWS reminding us how many Soviet missiles were along that border.

My point is that most pilots adapt very well to whatever equipment and airspace rules they encounter very well. There are always a few who slip through. I'll wager even some origional EJI/NJI folks fall into that category as well. Like the few who are very senior FOs who couldn't upgrade if their lives depended on it? And those who continue to try and sell the "difficulty" probably fall into that category as well.

 

[jppt2000]

So now we're back to 'mine's harder than yours'? I was in my early 20s flying close to the East German buffer zone doing 480 kts groung at 200' AGL with very little experience. Amazing how we all learned so quickly, both conventional and nuke tactics, while listening to the RAWS reminding us how many Soviet missiles were along that border.

My point is that most pilots adapt very well to whatever equipment and airspace rules they encounter very well. There are always a few who slip through. I'll wager even some origional EJI/NJI folks fall into that category as well. Like the few who are very senior FOs who couldn't upgrade if their lives depended on it? And those who continue to try and sell the "difficulty" probably fall into that category as well.

I listened to two NJI crews about 5+ years ago tell me they were "sure" the G200 was coming to the NJI side of the house because it was a Gulfstream product and Gulfstream won't let union folks fly "their" product.
It seems to me, many NJI folks were fed a huge amount of "you're a cut above", problem is a few folks still believe it, and profess it.
It's amazing how some folks still cling to the "but we were told this and promised that".
Next we'll see posts along the lines....
Europe and Asia will deny NJA access to their airspace because of the continuing onslaught of lost non-NJI piloted Gulfstreams blundering across borders, causing international incidents.
Please stop with the fear mongering.
International flying is not as tough as you make it out to be.

I don't think I missed the point of this thread at all.

 

[Helmsalee]

JPPT is right.

Back when I was at Delta, there was a period when new hires were going to JFK 767ER FO. No one wanted to commute and be junior in the seat. On the Delta pilot forum there was much wailing and crying. "They can't be international pilots with no experience." A senior Capt answered this way. "If an MD88 Capt can get by with one new hire FO, I guess I can manage with two." They did just fine. It's called training. Most pilots are sponges, they will absorb what you teach them. The problem comes when you think they already know something before you start. Maybe, maybe not.

It's similar to another thing that was common at Delta. Military guys thought they were superior to pilots with civilian backgrounds and vice versa. As a check pilot for a number of years, I can tell you neither were right. Each group brought a different skill set to the party. Neither were complete. The good ones, from both sides, worked hard to fill the gaps and become the complete package. The rest were the ones who claimed to be better due to where they came from.

Just MHO,
Helm

 

[glasspilot]

Now that was a fine post. I vote post of the year...

Nicely put Helmsalee

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Most of those pilots have been at NJA almost two to three times longer than you.

I know.... and I'm the PIC..... :laugh:

Gee, I'm actually laughing right now.

 

[jppt2000]

I know.... and I'm the PIC..... :laugh:

Gee, I'm actually laughing right now.

Enjoy!
Say, what did "they" tell you about the seniority issue with two PIC's flying together in the G?

 

[NachoMamma]

I know.... and I'm the PIC..... :laugh:

Just think, for every day that passes for the rest of your career, you'll be getting more junior in your fleet. Every single new pilot that upgrades in the G will be senior to you. Your vacations bids will get worse, holding your choice of schedule will get more difficult, and every time you fly with another captain, you'll be the junior guy...no matter how long you stay at NJ. That's gotta be frustrating. Enjoy that G lil fella! :laugh:

 

[gutshotdraw]

Just think, for every day that passes for the rest of your career, you'll be getting more junior in your fleet. Every single new pilot that upgrades in the G will be senior to you. Your vacations bids will get worse, holding your choice of schedule will get more difficult, and every time you fly with another captain, you'll be the junior guy...no matter how long you stay at NJ. That's gotta be frustrating. Enjoy that G lil fella! :laugh:

In case you hadn't heard, the G-IV fleet is shrinking. One airplane sold a few weeks ago and is currently being refurbed in SAV before heading to its new owner (EJM client btw). Another sale is imminent. Translation: there won't be many more PIC bids in the IV. NJI may "owe" a few slots to NJA per the LOA but that will be it. As soon as integration is complete, the IV will be put into disposal. EVERYBODY in that fleet will become more junior every year.

And as for the V fleet, let's see. About a 140 PIC's and 15 SIC's. Doesn't take Einstein to see there won't be a whole lot of bids for the left seat for, oh, say a decade.

So don't feel bad for Wolfie or anyone for that matter. He'll be telling the other guy to load the bags more often than not for a while yet.