NJI Questions

[NJAPLT]

All I expect is for the company and union to follow the contract and loa's, including the fence.

Now, for the next contract, I will lobby for the fences to be eliminated, in the interest of fairness to the entire nja pilot group.

I would also expect any pay negotiation to bring us all up to the level of the nji pilots, after all, the company by accepting that highest pay rate the company has already said that pay rate is fair, and we need to work our pay scale up from there.

(In addition, we need longer pay scales, it will take way more than 10 years to upgrade an fo to captain, but we will be capped soon.) Of course, I have pic's in the g4 who are junior to me, great for them, I don't expect to take their seat, but it upsets the principal of seniority.

i have had a standing upgrade bid posted in every available airplane since the first day I was given access to crewops. I am starting my 6th year with NetJets. I guess the 9 month upgrade time I was told in my interview was slightly inaccurate?

I would imaging many of the pic's will have the same issue, as they reach the end of the negotiated pay scale (which I believe is shorter in the small and mid size cabin fleets.)

Like the fence, it is something that has to be taken care of during the contract negotiation.

 

[NJAPLT]

There is no language addressing the combination of integration and fleet disposal. Should be interesting to see how the union deals with it. There are many IV PICs junior to the most junior 400 PIC. If true displacements occur post-integration - i.e., most junior IV PIC is junior-manned out of the fleet, our CBA language dictates that they will be downgraded to an SIC position.

I just reread the loa, it says they will not have a reduction of pay as a result of the integration. Further more, it says the pay will continue until the pilot bids and is awarded another position. As long as a g4 pic does not bid an sic position, i can't see how the company could reduce their pay. I would guess they will get sic pay until the true-up occurs at he end of the year (saves the company interest.)

Of course, because they can't reduce these pilots pay, they may just decide it isn't worth it to downgrade them into sic slots, they may just displace them as Pics instead, where they would have the same pay as they had when nji existed.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

If true displacements occur post-integration - i.e., most junior IV PIC is junior-manned out of the fleet, our CBA language dictates that they will be downgraded to an SIC position.

I believe the company can also offer a special bid open only to those pilots being displaced. Much like they just did for the BBJ pilots. Now... I wonder what aircraft a displaced GIV pilot might be of use to the company.... I'm thinking the GV.

 

[NJAPLT]

True, they can offer a displacement bid from the 4 to the 5 after integration, and it will only be those in the fleet that is allowed to bid. Of course, anyone who did would lose the extra pay in my opinion, as it is a bid.

Now, if no one bids, the most junior pilots in that fleet can be forced to change planes, since they did not bid they would keep the pay provisions.

Of course, it's all theoretical until it happens. If I was coming over from nji I would make sure I had these issues clarified before bidding anything.

Oh, and for every pic position they offer, they must by contact displace an equal number of sic pilots. They do not have to go to the sane fleet however (The last ultra displacement sent pic's to the g200, and sic's to the da-2000.)

 

[netjetwife]

.... They do not have to go to the sane fleet however ....)

Meaning that all the others are insane... There are some people who think it's a crazy lifestyle frac pilots lead....

Seriously, I hope the transition goes smoothly for all involved. NJW

 

[NJAPLT]

Meaning that all the others are insane... There are some people who think it's a crazy lifestyle frac pilots lead....

Seriously, I hope the transition goes smoothly for all involved. NJW

D'oh... Have to love the autocorrect on the iPhone.....

 

[netjetwife]

It was one of the most interesting typos I've seen.... and frac pilots do have some crazy schedules sometimes.... it could fit...

 

[ozpilot]

If the union tries to obviate the fences, the people who will be pissed off the most will be NJA guys that came over and have been patiently putting in their time to comply with the terms.

Not sure where your going on this. Any NJA FO Cross Over who wants to bid GIV Captain has to bid against the VSL. Just like any NJA pilot. It is unlikely any of the NJA FO cross overs will ever see the left seat of a G.

What do you mean by "patiently putting in their time to comply with the terms"?

 

[Pervis]

Not sure where your going on this. Any NJA FO Cross Over who wants to bid GIV Captain has to bid against the VSL. Just like any NJA pilot. It is unlikely any of the NJA FO cross overs will ever see the left seat of a G.

What do you mean by "patiently putting in their time to comply with the terms"?

Probably refering to the PIC crossovers, which still doesn't matter. Those guys are very senior and can hold any airframe on the property. Almost all FOs would never see the left seat in a G if seniority rules, which it does.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Perv is right. I was referencing the NJA PIC's that have been serving the seat lock terms of the LOA waiting for a seat in the V. A bunch of the early crossovers are in the 200's. They would be the ones pissed off if the fence was suddenly dropped and a more senior guy jumped over them into the V without flying the IV first.

 

[Pervis]

Gutshot, there are a whole lot more pissed off that there are many more junior pilots already PIC in the IV and V. In fact, management outright lied about the upgrades that were done in the last two years, clearly to favor the NJI pilots. That is history. Bottom line is this is something we all have to live with now. Not everyone will be happy. That's a fact in every merger out there.

Are we going to move forward as one, or blame each other for the crap managemnt made out of this whole thing? That is exactly what management does when dealing with a union shop. Divide and conquer will result in the focus of the pilot group being in the wrong place. Guess who that helps out? Not us, that's for sure. Let's see what we can do when the next round of negotiations begin. My only concern is that our leadership takes a moment to consider the consequences of rushing LOAs, and the membership demands that of them. That's what got us where we are today. Some is good, but lots of unintended consequences have made their ugly heads visible recently.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I think we're caught in a mobius loop....





Arthur C. Clarke fans will get that.

 

[TransMach]

Yeah because the Gulfstream was waaaaay more difficult to fly than any other silly biz jet...what a bunch of crap.

"What he said!"

TransMach

 

[TransMach]

In case you hadn't heard, the G-IV fleet is shrinking. One airplane sold a few weeks ago and is currently being refurbed in SAV before heading to its new owner (EJM client btw). Another sale is imminent. Translation: there won't be many more PIC bids in the IV. NJI may "owe" a few slots to NJA per the LOA but that will be it. As soon as integration is complete, the IV will be put into disposal. EVERYBODY in that fleet will become more junior every year.

And as for the V fleet, let's see. About a 140 PIC's and 15 SIC's. Doesn't take Einstein to see there won't be a whole lot of bids for the left seat for, oh, say a decade.

So don't feel bad for Wolfie or anyone for that matter. He'll be telling the other guy to load the bags more often than not for a while yet.

Wow, now doesn't that tell the story ..

TransMach

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Not everyone will be happy. That's a fact in every merger out there.

Pervis,

I'm inline with your thought process on this. The jury is still out on how this whole 'integration' will play out over the years. I'm fascinated to be honest! I've always been an avid reader of Pilot Labor issues dating back to the RLA. It is truly amazing to see the trail that leads us to 2010 (and I'm not talking about NJA, but pilots in general).

Ten years ago I would have stood up and yelled at the top of my lungs "EXACTLY" what was going to happen, because I was that smart. :laugh: Now... I sit back and analyze, because I realize I have no crystal ball and this whole thing could go straight and narrow or take a mountain road in a heart beat.

NJI was a wonderful place to work, and the people made all the difference in the world. I took the best part of NJI with me, a 28 year old smoking hot blond bombshell from Idaho! and made her my wife. Life changes and NJI will soon be gone, that I have accepted. How I am treated and paid and so forth at NJA will determine my level of 'caring' for this company. I come from a long line of pilots, and I've never been scared to up and move if need be. That is just the way I'm wired. We'll see if it comes to that.

For me personally, I'm ready to shake hands and go out for Indian food with any NJA pilot that acts like a regular dude (95% of them). For the ones that cop an attitude with me I'll gladly give the middle finger too.

Wolf
(technically a BSU Bronco starting next month during football season)