NJI Questions

[johnsonrod]

First, I want to wish everyone at Netjets (NJA and NJI) luck in smoothing out the integration. Part of me feels for the NJI pilots (primarily the FOs) who were expecting to fly G-Whizzes for the rest of their careers when they worked hard to qualify and signed on. On the other hand, the total operation will be a lot more efficient with the two groups integrated. I know a few NJA pilots (including one who was furloughed) but I don't know anyone on the NJI side of the fence.

Can someone answer a few questions I have regarding the new combined operation and how that impacts the pilots:

1. Is the entire NJA/NJI group now being viewed from a date-of-hire perspective? Are NJI Gulfstream Capts grandfathered into their seats?

2. Within the combined group, how will NJI Gulfstream FOs be impacted? Will they now need to bid for the left seat and wait in line just like everyone else or will they get a fast-track to the Gulfstream Capt slot? Have NJI FOs been displaced to NJA fleet aircraft?

3. Have the Gulfstreams now been opened up for bidding based on seniority as new aircraft arrive? Are all pilots basically able to bid any aircraft fleet based on seniority?

4. Just curious, what is the current mix of older GIV/GVs to newer G450/550s? Are the older GIVs/GVs being replaced by newer Gulfstreams or are newer Gulfstreams incremental to the fleet? I realize the imploded economy has probably led to slower or cancelled orders.

5. How many more G450s/550s on order going forward? Any orders for the 650 version yet?

Good luck to all involved. Incidently, I had my application in with NJA before the economic meltdown but never got the call... It's a great company and I hope that furloughees eventually return and some hiring will take place in the next 3-5 years...

 

[gutshotdraw]

First, I want to wish everyone at Netjets (NJA and NJI) luck in smoothing out the integration. Part of me feels for the NJI pilots (primarily the FOs) who were expecting to fly G-Whizzes for the rest of their careers when they worked hard to qualify and signed on. On the other hand, the total operation will be a lot more efficient with the two groups integrated. I know a few NJA pilots (including one who was furloughed) but I don't know anyone on the NJI side of the fence.

Can someone answer a few questions I have regarding the new combined operation and how that impacts the pilots:

1. Is the entire NJA/NJI group now being viewed from a date-of-hire perspective? Are NJI Gulfstream Capts grandfathered into their seats?

VSL (date of hire) is used for most everything (couple of exceptions until November 21). There will be no system flush so everybody stays where they presently sit.

2. Within the combined group, how will NJI Gulfstream FOs be impacted? Will they now need to bid for the left seat and wait in line just like everyone else or will they get a fast-track to the Gulfstream Capt slot? Have NJI FOs been displaced to NJA fleet aircraft?

No displacements yet. Any NJI pilot currently a Gulfstream First Officer will not see a left seat until their VSL number will hold a PIC bid, in a small aircraft fleet in 2-3 years or more.

3. Have the Gulfstreams now been opened up for bidding based on seniority as new aircraft arrive? Are all pilots basically able to bid any aircraft fleet based on seniority?

The LOA still requires an NJA pilot bidding the Gulfstream fleet to complete a seat lock in the IV prior to being eligible for the V/550/450. Seat lock is presently 3 years for SIC and 4 years for PIC. After integration, that will change to a 2 year equipment lock (time in the IV) and a 5 year Gulfstream program lock. The first 4 NJA pilots to complete their lock begin the GV/550/450 school tomorrow.

4. Just curious, what is the current mix of older GIV/GVs to newer G450/550s? Are the older GIVs/GVs being replaced by newer Gulfstreams or are newer Gulfstreams incremental to the fleet? I realize the imploded economy has probably led to slower or cancelled orders.

The fleet is approximately 50% IV's and 50% V/550/450. G-IV's are for sale and will be slowly drawn down over the next several years.

5. How many more G450s/550s on order going forward? Any orders for the 650 version yet?

There are orders for some 450's and 550's but most deliveries have been postponed for a while which is fine with Gulfstream because they are selling the crap out of the airplanes overseas. There are no plans to order the 650 that we have heard of but that could change in 4-5 years if the economy ever comes back.

Good luck to all involved. Incidently, I had my application in with NJA before the economic meltdown but never got the call... It's a great company and I hope that furloughees eventually return and some hiring will take place in the next 3-5 years...

Consolidation of the Okatie NOC to CMH continues and should be complete by October. I don't expect the single certificate to be complete before the end of the year.

 

[cldsfr79]

1. Is the entire NJA/NJI group now being viewed from a date-of-hire perspective? Are NJI Gulfstream Capts grandfathered into their seats?

2. Within the combined group, how will NJI Gulfstream FOs be impacted? Will they now need to bid for the left seat and wait in line just like everyone else or will they get a fast-track to the Gulfstream Capt slot? Have NJI FOs been displaced to NJA fleet aircraft?

Not to fan any flames but.....

I here some grumblings coming from the NJI side about joining up with NJA. Some guys not wanting to join a union, some guys not happy because they wanted to upgrade in their Gulfstream and now they might upgrade in an Ultra.

Now the flame: I think it's pretty lucky, fortunate and kind that a non-union group of pilots were given date of hire in an integration and that their pilot's interests were partially represented by a union that they don't pay for. I understand that the reason that this was done was to prevent infighting with a new group of pilots and to make things "fair". I just don't want to hear any grumbling. There are hundreds of great NJA-union-paying guys that got dumped in the furlough while non-union guys were protected and were given "virtual seniority". No grumbling please from NJI guys who have their jobs, GV captains that are junior to a chunk of NJA FOs and NJI FOs who will be getting paid more and holding their GV/GIV while NJA FOs hold smaller aircraft with less pay.

Ok, let's here it. My "shields are up".

 

[av8trinabarrel]

:bomb:

 

[Jack Campbell]

.....

 

[Grizz]

Now the flame: I think it's pretty lucky, fortunate and kind that a non-union group of pilots were given date of hire in an integration and that their pilot's interests were partially represented by a union that they don't pay for.

NJA pilots were ready to petition the NMB to declare NJA and NJI a single-transportation system. What that basically means is that NJA pilots felt that if it were not for the interference of management, there would always have only been one pilot group represented at the time by the IBT.

It would be impossible to attempt to make that argument with the NMB and do anything but date of hire integration.

 

[glasspilot]

Serious question,

Back when both NJA and NJI were hiring were they both getting the same experience pilots? It was sort of my understanding that it was much harder with higher mins to get on with NJI. If that's true then wouldn't it make sense for the G4 FO to be a little upset about flying an Ultra?

Or it could be that I'm way off base here. It's happened before. I just seem to recall NJAs mins a lot lower.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Most of the guys around my hire date, including myself, all had more than enough to meet the minimums at NJI. That being said, there were quite a few high time guys hired at NJI as well. For the folks on the street and the bottom of the current list, it was ridiculously competitive to get on at both NJI and NJA.


When it comes time to upgrade in 2030, I could give a crap what I'm flying. Big shiney jet syndrome does nothing for me. Of course, that might change depending on the time of year and no APU.

 

[CA1900]

Back when both NJA and NJI were hiring were they both getting the same experience pilots? It was sort of my understanding that it was much harder with higher mins to get on with NJI.

Higher published minimums, yes. But the actual candidates walking through the doors of the NJA interview exceeded the minimums for either company, so that really isn't an issue.

 

[172driver]

You have to wonder if the integration would have taken place under Sokol regardless of pilot input from either side? Definitely kills a lot of redundancy and streamlines the operation. If this is the case (and we'll never know), the NJI pilots got a very sweet deal.