NJI Bashing...

[NJA Capt]

But I didn’t pay my dues in this business to go bid Captain on an Ultra and make 80k/year. No thanks.

Wolf, you are getting all wound around the axle for nothing. No one said you were/would be kicked out of your beloved Gstream. I have plenty of seniority a NJA to bid over, but I couldn't care less about it. No one said you would have to lower yourself to a BJet or be forced anywhere. As I said above, it was NJI FOs that I talked to personally that wanted to bid down to get a PIC position. I am yet to talk personally to an NJA pilot that wants to bid the GIV.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I am not in the office at 1108, but from what I understand, that was the offer. It was flatly refused, so of course now it will get ugly. Maybe someone who was there could verify......

Oh, no, no, no! And the riddle continues. So you don’t even know what your own union offered, and your just repeating what you heard? Here I thought I was having a professional and informed discussion with someone in the ‘know’ and it turns out you don’t know anymore than I do. Do any of you have a clue as to what your union is doing in regards to the NJI pilots? Anyone?

And here in lies the problem when everyone stands around the Union May Pole and sings kumbayah; nobody but about 4 guys really know what was said and to who, and those same guys will lead a herd of thousands right over the cliff.

Let’s play a game show:

WOULD THE REAL IBT 1108 PLEASE STAND UP!

 

[batsky2000]

Batsky, I think you need to talk to your own FOs. Last year I talked to several GIV FOs in TEB who were looking forward to flying the G200 because upgrade in the IV and V would take too long. Seems they were more than willing to "bid down" to get the left seat.

The offer was to drop the fence and pretend the separate companies never happened. Date of hire and flow back and forth between fleets. It doesn't get more equal than that. How is that more unfair to the NJI newhires? They would have been able to bid a Capt position on our side. Now they can't.....but we can bid to your side. (There is that word again....there shouldn't even be different sides). There is also no talk of "throwing you into a Beechjet." There is this thing called seniority. We can bid an opening but we can't make an opening.

Most of us don't care anything about flying the Gs. Nice airplane, but I have no interest in flying 10 hour legs. They're all yours. We just want to see the company combined into one large operation. It appears on this site at least, we are willing to share our toys, but you aren't.


I don't know which FO's you have been talking to, but if they want to go, then good for them, if taking a pay cut is worth it to fly in the left seat, then they can move over, I don't know of too many of us that want to fly over there in a G200 just so that we can sit in the left seat and make less, not much logic to that decision, considering the fact that you guys had plenty that were on bypass pay that could care less about the left seat, it was all about the money, so now these guys are willing to take a pay cut to fly in the left seat, again, not much logic to that decision, to each his own

But again, I seriously doubt that the 1108 considered the new hires that we have, do you think that without a fence that our new hires would still be able to fly the G? Like Wolf said, we were all hired here at NJI to fly the G, I enjoy the long legs, Most of my experience is all Int'l flying to all parts of the world, and I love it, been doing it for years and will continue to do it for years, have no desire to go back to a small jet and get stuck flying only domestic trips, not my thing, for you the long legs is not your thing, at least we agree on that point, so why not just keep things as they are and lets just do our jobs?

 

[CE750Driver]

Oh, no, no, no! And the riddle continues. So you don’t even know what your own union offered, and your just repeating what you heard? Here I thought I was having a professional and informed discussion with someone in the ‘know’ and it turns out you don’t know anymore than I do. Do any of you have a clue as to what your union is doing in regards to the NJI pilots? Anyone?

And here in lies the problem when everyone stands around the Union May Pole and sings kumbayah; nobody but about 4 guys really know what was said and to who, and those same guys will lead a herd of thousands right over the cliff.

Let’s play a game show:

WOULD THE REAL IBT 1108 PLEASE STAND UP!

Man, are you gonna get what you deserve. 1108 has more integrity in there little fingers than you have in your body. If they ever lowered themselves to tell someone with a god complex like you what they were gonna do I would laugh. Enjoy your time in the Gwhiz, never know how long its gonna last.

BTW, it wasnt rumor and conjecture, but you can think it is if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling. NJA pilots are not in the dark like you guys.

Have a great day.

 

[NJA Capt]

Like Wolf said, we were all hired here at NJI to fly the G, I enjoy the long legs, Most of my experience is all Int'l flying to all parts of the world, and I love it, been doing it for years and will continue to do it for years, have no desire to go back to a small jet and get stuck flying only domestic trips, not my thing, for you the long legs is not your thing, at least we agree on that point, so why not just keep things as they are and lets just do our jobs?

You guys are only hearing what you want to hear. No one one is going to kick you out of your Gulfthing. Although it might be a humbling experience.

Why Bother? Because there are two companies doing the same thing under the same name for the same people. Did Delta form a new airline to run the 777? Did the military form a new Air Force to fly the F22? One company/One list thats all we are saying.

Again: No one said you would be kicked out of your seats, senior Gs or Newhires.

PS. The next time you turn your nose up or laugh at a "little" Ultra pilot at TEB, keep in mind it is quite possible that he has more time over the Pacific than you have. There are plenty of people that think your G is a light twin. Believe it or not, not everyone aspires to do so much International flying.

You conveniently ignore the fact that more pilots at NJA have something to lose than you or your new hires.

 

[NJANJIFLEXFLOP]

Man, are you gonna get what you deserve. 1108 has more integrity in there little fingers than you have in your body. If they ever lowered themselves to tell someone with a god complex like you what they were gonna do I would laugh. Enjoy your time in the Gwhiz, never know how long its gonna last.

BTW, it wasnt rumor and conjecture, but you can think it is if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling. NJA pilots are not in the dark like you guys.

Have a great day.

WOLFPACK...You have been very nice...I however dont care what they think.

Ahem, Integrity???? CE700Driver (AKA CE750Stealer) you have no integrity after admitting to stealing tips for cleaning your airplane.....go somewhere else a come back with a better defense. And NJI isnt scared of any union that itself doesnt know what they are going to do muchless how they are going to win..(Like that will ever happen)

Its plain and simple.. We here at NJI avoided NJA, FLEX, FLOPS, CocaCola, HP, NIKE, etc etc to come here to NJI. It just wasnt they place we wanted to be. Not because of a Union it was because we wanted to fly international trips in the Gulfstream. And remember we didnt just fall out of a 172 into this position just like none of you did. NJI, just like NJA, has an interview process and we all went through it with multifaceted resumes.

I think that the better question is WHY is NJA so thirsty for NJI? What gives? If you dont want to do the long flights why are you even interested. MOre Union Dues for your Proud Union? That doesnt help you as the individual...but it sure helps the TEAMSTERS..(Oxymoron)

I spoke my peace....But come on...Quit trying to scare us with tactics like, stapling, blah blah blah thats what Unions "due".....We arent union and it doesnt work over here.

BTW...Is Granny still helping you make your Car payments from the TIP jar??

 

[TORCH67]

Go ahead and bury your head in the sand and do nothing! This will play out with or without the NJI pilots having a say in it, Your Choice. You could have pilots speaking for you, or you could have Woodbridge!

 

[BBJPILOT]

Oh, no, no, no! And the riddle continues. So you don’t even know what your own union offered, and your just repeating what you heard? Here I thought I was having a professional and informed discussion with someone in the ‘know’ and it turns out you don’t know anymore than I do. Do any of you have a clue as to what your union is doing in regards to the NJI pilots? Anyone?

And here in lies the problem when everyone stands around the Union May Pole and sings kumbayah; nobody but about 4 guys really know what was said and to who, and those same guys will lead a herd of thousands right over the cliff.

Let’s play a game show:

WOULD THE REAL IBT 1108 PLEASE STAND UP!

Yep, sure do. Also know exactly who, when, and where "your side" threw you under the wheels. There was a much better offer, FOR YOU, than what you have now, and what you will have! MUCH BETTER! Time is all NJA lost! Now there is no doubt that the players in Woodbridge will attempt to develop amnesia, they already got rid of the man who was the mouth piece, and that is always expected from the "Great One", but that will only make it even more fun!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

1108 has more integrity in there little fingers than you have in your body. If they ever lowered themselves to tell someone with a god complex like you what they were gonna do I would laugh.

Where did that come from? Now who’s throwing mud? All I said was I thought you and I were having an informed discussion because you had 1st hand knowledge of an offer made to Mr. Santulli (not the NJI pilots). And when you told me you didn’t really know for sure because you weren’t there, I say the riddle continues.

For the sake of a professional discussion I am hereby inviting the following to chime in and please tell me if I’m wrong. Please read this thread, all my posts, and the replies and tell me where I have no integrity.

Diesel
Grizz
Batsky
Hogprint
Oldf*rt
Gunfyter
Guts
And to show I’m not a discriminating person, would the wife care to comment?

Enjoy your time in the Gwhiz, never know how long its gonna last.

I am fully capable of flying Gulfstreams for operators other than NetJets. I have a very close network of friends that span this industry and my resume is impeccable; I have never feared being unemployed, I’m not starting now.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Yep, sure do

Well come on Big Guy, spill it already. Quit talking in circles and acting like you’re holding the winning lottery ticket.

Let’s play a math quiz.

Year: 2009

NJI Pilots: Still non-union

NJA Pilots: win NMB petition


Answer is: _____________________


NJI pilots are not going to unionize in my opinion. So if you’re waiting for that to happen, move to step 2. Let’s say you win the whole enchilada, what is the official position of the pilots represented by Teamsters local 1108 in regards to the integration and treatment of NJI pilots?

Am I speaking Greek here…..


Oh, and on side note you guys look pretty ignorant making offers to Woodbridge about a pilot group who you have “never” made a formal statement too. I check my mailbox everyday. And yes I would be more than happy to supply my name and address to the 1108 so they could keep me "OFFICIALLY" informed on their agenda concerning me and my job!

Reminds me of three passengers (total strangers) sitting in a row, the 1st guy asks the middle guy to ask the 3rd guy if he’d like to trade his peanuts for pretzels. 2nd guy looks at 1st guy and says he’s allergic to pretzels… and he looks like he’s sleeping anyway.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Wolfpack - with all due professional respect, BBJPilot is one of the people you should heed for so-called "in the know" information. I can tell you that he truly knows the inside story, more so than any other person on this board.

 

[laterallymobile]

Wulf, I think that this is a constructive dialogue going on here but you are crossing the line asking the nja wife to chime in

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but with respect to teamsters integrity don't they represent hojet pilots. That company is the ultimate alter ego if there ever was one.

 

[RustyFan]

And to show I’m not a discriminating person, would the wife care to comment?

Son... Im going run you down like Dale Sr on Waltrips bumper at Daytona for this one!

you go check your blackberry and apologize!

 

[realityman]

Yep, I'll second that. BBJPilot is in "the know". In truth, it's hard to say how all of this will play out in the end, but if BBJPilot says he knows the "who" "what" "where" and "how" of what went down, you better believe it's fact.

I can't speak for anyone's integrity on this board, or about any of our pilot's integrity, or about NJI's pilots' integrity (every single one of whom that I've met on the road have been fine individuals, except one), or of the Teamster's integrity, but I can simply throw out for observation that RTS agreed, IN WRITING AND IN A LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT, to allow NJA pilots to be given a limited number of seats at NJI, and he's now reneging on the deal.

Local 1108 has come through on every promise they've made to the pilot group. So what gives with RTS? (yes, I do consider a signed contract to be a "promise")

 

[wolfpackpilot]

BBJPilot says he knows the "who" "what" "where" and "how" of what went down, you better believe it's fact.

So does anyone have a 1108 secret decoder ring I can borrow to translate what he's saying?

If your union speaks for you, and all of you are so concerned about getting NJI folded in, then shouldn't all of you be in the know? When I was in a union we had this thing called the VARS, and this other thing called a newsletter, oh, and this other thing called LEC meeting, and dont forget the MEC meeting as well. All "official" sources of communication. So what gives say the men of 1108?

Im hearing; "Hey, dont ask me, Im just a pilot here, ask one of the union guys." Boy, and I wonder why I left ALPA.

Its a "GOOD" thing Im not in your union, because I'd be rippin a new one in somebody's backside for some answers.

and he's now reneging on the deal.

Ooohh really... As Opra would say, "Do tell, do tell"

 

[AA717driver]

WolfPack--I've got three words for you:

Part

Ninety

One.

That's all you need to know. TC

 

[realityman]

Sorry Wolf, but just because we don't want to post what our union tells us on a public message board for you and a bunch of anonymous people out there doesn't mean they're not communicating with us.
You have quite an ego to think that just because we don't tell YOU what's being said, that there must be nothing said at all. This board is really just entertainment. Does anyone really take it seriously? And we're not putting our plans out there for YOUR entertainment.
Personally, I don't care whether we fly Gulfstreams or not at NJA. And I certainly could care less whether the folks at NJI join 1108. But if you really want to know to what we're being told, then come on over and join our group.

And you can "do tell, do tell" all you like. It doesn't change the fact that RTS agreed to something and is going back on what he agreed to. I guess it's easy to be flippant when you're not the one being lied to.

Tell you what, all the Oprah fans out there would love to hear your explanation as to why RTS is failing to honor our contract. Oooh.....do tell!

Or is RTS not telling you what's going on?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Thank you sir....

And you know who you are.

:beer:

 

[wolfpackpilot]

And you can "do tell, do tell" all you like. It doesn't change the fact that RTS agreed to something and is going back on what he agreed to. I guess it's easy to be flippant when you're not the one being lied to. Or is RTS not telling you what's going on?

Oh contraire Senior. I’m not being flippant about anything, because I don’t know what you’re talking about. If you guys are back in the ring with your management, I’d be the last one they called to give a briefing.

I’m just a gear slinging monkey like the rest of you.



DID I MENTION THE GEAR HANDLES IN THE GULFSTREAM ARE GOLD PLATED?

 

[laterallymobile]

Reality, you guys are not that good at keeping secrets(no pilot group is) but I'll agree that some nja guys are more informed than others.

I was wondering what NJA really wants with NJI. NJA has bigger a/c and probably makes better money at the upper end of the payscale. All of this with pretty good work rules.

To some people on the outside of this fight it often looks like the only goal is to burn down NJI any way possible. One side is not being used against the other to outsource flying or put anyone on the street as would be the case with an alter ego. Kind of looks like the union just wants victory for victory's sake.

 

[Majik]

I was wondering what NJA really wants with NJI. NJA has bigger a/c and probably makes better money at the upper end of the payscale. All of this with pretty good work rules.

To some people on the outside of this fight it often looks like the only goal is to burn down NJI any way possible. One side is not being used against the other to outsource flying or put anyone on the street as would be the case with an alter ego. Kind of looks like the union just wants victory for victory's sake.

My perspective - Santulli has always used NJI as a tool to show his displeasure at NJA pilots for having the nerve to desire a written contract reference work rules and to have a way of insuring those rules are applied fairly and equally within the ranks of NJA. Sort of like giving one son preferential treatment to teach the other son a lesson.

What do I want to happen? Let the courts decide if NJA and NJI should be combined under a Single Carrier ruling. This is a battle between NJA pilots and Santulli. NJI pilots are on the sideline. They were placed there by Santulli. I see Santulli as the instigator of this battle based on his history of false promises, negotiating tactics, and general disregard for the NJA pilots. I'm ready for him to reap the harvest of the seeds he has sown over the past decade or longer.

I don't like Santulli. I like working at NJA. I was anti-union when I came to NJA (EJA). It didn't take long for me to understand why unions were needed at certain companys (and NJA, due to Santulli, is definitely one of those companys). Now it would be nice if we had another division of NetJets that Santulli hated so he could throw additional money and benefits at us to teach those "other bastards" a lesson. NJI has enjoyed that benefit. If I were an NJI pilot I would be unhappy that my preferential treatment was being challenged. If I were an NJI pilot I would probably be a huge Santulli fan because I would be benefitting while Santulli tried to show those NJA bastards a lesson.

It's not a battle between NJA and NJI pilots, but between NJA pilots and Santulli. That's my emotional argument.

My rational argument is that I feel it is more costly to run separate Headquarters for NJI and NJA. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it would be cheaper to build separate operation centers for the 400XP fleet in LAX, an Ultra center in DAL, a Hawker 800XP center in EWR, CE-750 center in MIA, and so on and so forth. I think Santulli built the new facility and moved NJI away from CMH because Santulli was trying to head off part of the case that supported the single carrier argument. I think he chose to move it close to Savannah because that is where the Gulfstreams are produced. Was it enough? I guess a court will decide. No big deal one way or the other, but to me it's the principle and I feel it's worth pursuing. I'd like NetJets to be profitable and efficient for a long time. If it costs more to run two (or more) separate operations centers then I'd like to see that waste trimmed. More money for the employees and shareholders is a good thing in my eyes.

 

[RustyFan]

Santulli has always used NJI as a tool to show his displeasure at NJA pilots for having the nerve to desire a written contract

NJI was created for several reasons; 1st and foremost because your duly, legally and ethically elected union signed off on it (Indian Givers). Somebody somewhere over there in Teamsters Headquarters said “OK”. Quit thinking about today and tomorrow and remember how you got here Buckaroo

More money for the employees and shareholders is a good thing in my eyes.

Don’t you mean the shareholders, then the upper management, and then maybe the employees? Hey Bud, this is A-meri-ka, land of the free, the stupid and Hollywood. Don’t like your pay wages, go open a Starbucks in a disserted Shoney’s building. Quit trying to strong-arm corporate America with union tactics. Or better yet, if you don’t like the way your company is being run, go straight to the man and tell him you want a shot a fixing this place. Then you can make the decisions.

 

[buttercup]

NJI was created for several reasons; 1st and foremost because your duly, legally and ethically elected union signed off on it (Indian Givers). Somebody somewhere over there in Teamsters Headquarters said “OK”. Quit thinking about today and tomorrow and remember how you got here Buckaroo






Don’t you mean the shareholders, then the upper management, and then maybe the employees? Hey Bud, this is A-meri-ka, land of the free, the stupid and Hollywood. Don’t like your pay wages, go open a Starbucks in a disserted Shoney’s building. Quit trying to strong-arm corporate America with union tactics. Or better yet, if you don’t like the way your company is being run, go straight to the man and tell him you want a shot a fixing this place. Then you can make the decisions.

Starbucks doesn't offer franchise opportunities every Starbuck's is company owned. I agree with you though starting your own business is the way to go. The sense of accomplishment, financial freedom, and the feeling of liberation is something you'll never fully experience working for somebody else.

 

[CE750Driver]

WOLFPACK...You have been very nice...I however dont care what they think.

Ahem, Integrity???? CE700Driver (AKA CE750Stealer) you have no integrity after admitting to stealing tips for cleaning your airplane.....go somewhere else a come back with a better defense. And NJI isnt scared of any union that itself doesnt know what they are going to do muchless how they are going to win..(Like that will ever happen)

Its plain and simple.. We here at NJI avoided NJA, FLEX, FLOPS, CocaCola, HP, NIKE, etc etc to come here to NJI. It just wasnt they place we wanted to be. Not because of a Union it was because we wanted to fly international trips in the Gulfstream. And remember we didnt just fall out of a 172 into this position just like none of you did. NJI, just like NJA, has an interview process and we all went through it with multifaceted resumes.

I think that the better question is WHY is NJA so thirsty for NJI? What gives? If you dont want to do the long flights why are you even interested. MOre Union Dues for your Proud Union? That doesnt help you as the individual...but it sure helps the TEAMSTERS..(Oxymoron)

I spoke my peace....But come on...Quit trying to scare us with tactics like, stapling, blah blah blah thats what Unions "due".....We arent union and it doesnt work over here.

BTW...Is Granny still helping you make your Car payments from the TIP jar??

Hey lozer, do a little search. That was 750driver that was saying that tip stuff. If you cant even do a little search before you come on here and start throwing that stuff around, it shows your integrity.

BTW, I hear your interview process involves xxxxxxxxxxxxx the chief pilot.
Have a nice day, and in the future, when you sling mud, please check your facts.

 

[BBJPILOT]

NJI was created for several reasons; 1st and foremost because your duly, legally and ethically elected union signed off on it (Indian Givers). Somebody somewhere over there in Teamsters Headquarters said “OK”. Quit thinking about today and tomorrow and remember how you got here Buckaroo


It is always nice to hear from the informed. First, NJI was "exempted" for the term of the past contract, which expired in 2001, not for life as you may believe. It was a 3 year exemption only. Second, this exemption was based on multiple promises made by the Great One to the pilots at EJA as to what would happen at NJI, and what would happen hear. NONE of those promises were kept, and in fact most were reneged on before the ink dried. Additionally, this TEMPORARY exemption was given based on the Great Ones statements, as truth, as to how the whole operation would not happen if we insisted on getting them. Do you know that he promised that once Gulfstreams joint marketing agreement was over, the aircraft could then easily be returned to EJA? Or, that he "wanted the operation at EJA, that EJA was his love and life, that only Forstmann was the reason for having them TEMPORARILY seperated from HIS company." Of course his promises, several times, over several years before, that "EJA would soon be flying Gulfstreams" was just another reason for my recommendation to reject the third attempt at a contract in 1998. I didn't believe for a minute the BS he was spilling. I knew that Forstmann needed airplanes sold, and could care less about who flew them. He, not the Union, elected to have a temporary exemption, and time is up.

Indian Giver, you must mean Santulli, right? The reason this has come this far is that people have finally woken up to the deceit and dishonesty. EJI was built on it from day one, and every time a contract becomes ammendable, all things in it are up for "renegotiation". Don't worry yourself too much though, you can bet that the same "ethics" will shine brightly on this whole thing as well.

 

[Majik]

NJI was created for several reasons; 1st and foremost because your duly, legally and ethically elected union signed off on it (Indian Givers). Somebody somewhere over there in Teamsters Headquarters said “OK”. Quit thinking about today and tomorrow and remember how you got here Buckaroo

Oooooooh, I'm sorry but your answer is wrong. Although you didn't win any money or parting gifts at least you hopefully learned something. Better luck next time though.

 

[gunfyter]

And while you're at it...

Everyone can thank BBJPilot if you today enjoy prospective rest for your 135 and 91K flights... as he forced the FAA Chief Counsel to take a stand.

Oh you 121 pilots too. Thats OK ALPA has thanked him on their website.

He's done more for professional pilots than likely all the rest of us reading these boards combined.

What your company and FSDO don't obey the FAR duty and rest regs? IBT1108 can help you with that. FLOPS management will be learning to comply with rest rules soon.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

BBJpilot once again has to dish up factual history for those who have a short memory over there at NJI. It would be easier to just start a thread of "Self study for NJI pilots with short memories or inabilities to do a search" and let BBJpilot copy all his replies to it.

Hey guys, just print it out this time and stick it in a folder so that in a couple years you can look back on what really happened. History will prove that the Union will only improve you're lifestyle and the lies you're fed from the great one, are well documented on our side.

 

[RustyFan]

It is always nice to hear from the informed. First, NJI was "exempted" for the term of the past contract, which expired in 2001, not for life as you may believe.

Hey Bubba, nice spin…

“Your Union Masters have taught you well Obi Won”

Too bad you’re just pissed off because you know you guys stamped the whole EJI thing with your approval and signed the side letter. Promises or not, you did it. Next time get it in writing Einstein. You’re just pissing green backs away, and I’m laughing at ya, big Guy! You’re A-team players left that union and kissed it Good-Bye in 1996 and never looked back. You obviously didn’t get an invite to the party.

You won’t win this Petition, I know it, and you know it. The Republicans are going to keep the White House, Management always wins, and you boys are spinning those wheels for nuttin! If our boys thought for one moment we were in jeapordy, we’d unionize just to head you off at the pass, Nimrod!

But hey, I know your little NJA kids just love ya, because you fly a 737, enjoy your fame!

My $ has always been on Mr. Richard Santulli and company. And listen, don’t feel bad and get all upset, it’s not your fault he likes us better.

 

[RustyFan]

Oooooooh, I'm sorry but your answer is wrong. Although you didn't win any money or parting gifts at least you hopefully learned something. Better luck next time though.

I think your brain works like your Avantar...