NJASAP Officials stand in front on Flexjet sign with their center fingers extended

[MOMOMOJO]

OK not really. They have more class than that move.

However two very interesting things happened since the vote on Thursday regarding NJASAP.

The first being their CEO told them they're next. Apparently, the Flexjet vote has emboldened their CEO into thinking he can threaten their unity by launching a Flexjet style campaign. Management appeared at Fridays negotiating session with a less than constructive attitude.

Secondly and this is rich. Some Flexjet pilots (pro decerters not pro union) reached out to some leaders at NJASAP to inquire about starting an organizing campaign now that the Teamsters are gone.

These Flexjet pilots did not understand the NJASAP charter does not allow it nor will NJASAP change their charter for Flexjet. As a matter of fact, what I believe they said was even if the charter was changed to allow another union (like TMC) to come on they would specifically exclude Flexjet from ever being allowed on the charter.

Regarding TMC, the bad news is now that NJASAP has a potential battle on their hands they aren't going to risk diversification any time soon. Flexjet has really hosed those guys.

So now two company's pilot groups hate Flexjet with a passion. How many more will come our in the next few months when the ramifications start being realized?

No pilot union will ever risk organizing Flexjet again. It doesn't even matter if the decert was really a union leadership problem or not. There's no upside for them regardless of what anyone tells you. The risks to their own current membership are too high.

I've spoken with quite a few decerters over this weekend who felt the "lack of immediate raise" and return to longevity were a gut punch. They hope chances for re-unionization are high. They also think the threat of it alone will cause Ricci to act on his promises.

What no one seems to get is now that this has happened not only will we never organize again there is no threat management will feel that will get them to do anything they're not forced to do by the market.

The "fun" is just beginning.

 

[CALRepublic]

Are we doing this now, Once a month someone starts a thread about NJ becoming the next FJ?

here at NJA, the union-management relationship is the best I’ve seen in my 14 years of service. I’m NOT saying everything is perfect, or that peace and harmony abound. But it is the best I’ve seen. I think our CEO is making an effort to have a good relationship with the union and pilot group. With all the bad rep FJ is getting for kicking out the union, our management would be crazy to think about pulling the same stunt. We’re altwady having some issues hiring enough pilots. Why make that even harder?

NJA becoming “the next Flexjet” is probably the last of my concerns.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

No CALRepublic that is not what I'm saying at all. I agree if you guys play it right not only will this not be an issue but actually a boon to your progress.

You need to talk to your union leadership about what the repercussions of last week mean regarding your union-management might be. I know for a fact (heard it directly from a union leader) they are concerned about management's change of tone after Wednesday but feel confident you guys can help each other dominate the market using Flexjet's pilot stupidity to their advantage.

The major point of the post was to underline the fact the industry has real reason to hate us since we hace added extra wrinkles. The other point of the post is to underscore the stupidity of pilots already seeking to organize another union. No union, especially NJASAP will touch Flexjet.

The only thing becoming the next Flexjet will be a dumpster fire. In a few years instead of using that term people in the industry will just say "Flexjet".

Do you disagree?

If I stay, I'm going to work toward the type of prosperity 318 of my colleagues asked me to try but after hearing what I did just this morning from an NJA union leader, I just don't know if my career can survive staying.

Flexjet decerters already talking to NJASAP less than a week out? It's serious sign of trouble for Flexjet.

 

[realityman]

OK not really. They have more class than that move.

However two very interesting things happened since the vote on Thursday regarding NJASAP.

The first being their CEO told them they're next. Apparently, the Flexjet vote has emboldened their CEO into thinking he can threaten their unity by launching a Flexjet style campaign. Management appeared at Fridays negotiating session with a less than constructive attitude.

Secondly and this is rich. Some Flexjet pilots (pro decerters not pro union) reached out to some leaders at NJASAP to inquire about starting an organizing campaign now that the Teamsters are gone.

These Flexjet pilots did not understand the NJASAP charter does not allow it nor will NJASAP change their charter for Flexjet. As a matter of fact, what I believe they said was even if the charter was changed to allow another union (like TMC) to come on they would specifically exclude Flexjet from ever being allowed on the charter.

Regarding TMC, the bad news is now that NJASAP has a potential battle on their hands they aren't going to risk diversification any time soon. Flexjet has really hosed those guys.

So now two company's pilot groups hate Flexjet with a passion. How many more will come our in the next few months when the ramifications start being realized?

No pilot union will ever risk organizing Flexjet again. It doesn't even matter if the decert was really a union leadership problem or not. There's no upside for them regardless of what anyone tells you. The risks to their own current membership are too high.

I've spoken with quite a few decerters over this weekend who felt the "lack of immediate raise" and return to longevity were a gut punch. They hope chances for re-unionization are high. They also think the threat of it alone will cause Ricci to act on his promises.

What no one seems to get is now that this has happened not only will we never organize again there is no threat management will feel that will get them to do anything they're not forced to do by the market.

The "fun" is just beginning.

Can you give the initials of the union "leader" who supposedly gave you this info? I'm pretty up to date on what's going on, and there has been zero talk by anyone anywhere on our side that management over here said we're next. I find it hard to believe one of our Eboard members gave that tidbit of information to someone who isn't a pilot here, but is keeping it a secret from everyone here.

They have mentioned progress at our Joint Working Group has slowed. There has been some chatter from lower level union volunteers that the decert vote is concerning to us for a number of reasons, as well as the same chatter from the members at large, but no one has end remotely implied that anyone from management has straight up told us "we're next".

I'm not suggesting it isn't management's greatest dream to see our union gone, but that's extremely old news. They've tried for YEARS to break our union, and using tactics and methods KR didn't even come close to using at Flex. Yes, we're sorry and concerned he succeeded, but you folks over there have no clue as to what a truly massive and insidious union busting campaign really looks like. KR used lies and propaganda on an a group of people where probably at least half were already predisposed to want the union gone. Sorry, not really that much work for ol KR. We've been through far far worse over here and come out stronger every single time.

So no, I don't believe our management told our leaders "we're next". They've already experienced first hand what a strong union that is attacked can do to the business.

As for folks on your side wanting a different union, I wouldn't be surprised. However, it's been explained ad nauseum that you have to wait a year before you can organise again, but even then there is no union that will touch you as you've already displayed you (As a group) aren't good for a union to be involved with. Compared to other unionized groups you're fairly small. Most unions would put more money into helping you than they'd receive from dues. So after investing the time and money into your group, you have shown (again, as a group) you'll believe management over them and cut and run when things get bumpy. Again, no one is ever going to touch you. As for NJASAP organizing you under our banner, yes, that could never happen. And quite frankly, while many of us (including myself) feel very sorry for you (well, at least 220 of you), our members are of the same stance that you'd be a terrible investment. I'm sure our union folks would always be available to assist you if/when you decide to unionize again, but it won't be as part of our union. Something like that would likely (at the very least) require a vote by our membership, and I'm almost 100% positive it wouldn't go your way.

Good luck to all of you. In my previous life I flew for KR. He is a lying weasel of epic proportions and now has the ability to screw with you at will with no consequences. And all of you didn't just vote to kick out the union, you've voted to forever be a non-union shop. Give it a year, then come back and let's see all the promises he'll have delivered on.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

OK not really. They have more class than that move.

However two very interesting things happened since the vote on Thursday regarding NJASAP.

The first being their CEO told them they're next. Apparently, the Flexjet vote has emboldened their CEO into thinking he can threaten their unity by launching a Flexjet style campaign. Management appeared at Fridays negotiating session with a less than constructive attitude.

Secondly and this is rich. Some Flexjet pilots (pro decerters not pro union) reached out to some leaders at NJASAP to inquire about starting an organizing campaign now that the Teamsters are gone.

These Flexjet pilots did not understand the NJASAP charter does not allow it nor will NJASAP change their charter for Flexjet. As a matter of fact, what I believe they said was even if the charter was changed to allow another union (like TMC) to come on they would specifically exclude Flexjet from ever being allowed on the charter.

Regarding TMC, the bad news is now that NJASAP has a potential battle on their hands they aren't going to risk diversification any time soon. Flexjet has really hosed those guys.

So now two company's pilot groups hate Flexjet with a passion. How many more will come our in the next few months when the ramifications start being realized?

No pilot union will ever risk organizing Flexjet again. It doesn't even matter if the decert was really a union leadership problem or not. There's no upside for them regardless of what anyone tells you. The risks to their own current membership are too high.

I've spoken with quite a few decerters over this weekend who felt the "lack of immediate raise" and return to longevity were a gut punch. They hope chances for re-unionization are high. They also think the threat of it alone will cause Ricci to act on his promises.

What no one seems to get is now that this has happened not only will we never organize again there is no threat management will feel that will get them to do anything they're not forced to do by the market.

The "fun" is just beginning.

Fake news. Next...

 

[MOMOMOJO]

Reality man I am not going to put anyone at risk by mentioning initials here. What I would suggest is that you call whichever Union leader you feel closest to and ask for their opinion. I am completely confident that my information regarding your CEOs take on the decertification is accurate.

I am also completely confident that my information regarding certain flexjet Pilots already approaching njasap is accurate as well. I'm confident because when I first heard this news from a union leader over there I called to verify it with certain members of our
Decertification section I felt would tell me the truth. While they wouldn't confirm talks it already taken place they did confirm there was a plan to approach njasap within the near future.

Surprisingly this information was given to me not only because they want to pursue talks with njasap but they also feel that entering talks will give management all the encouragement it needs to act swiftly on their promises.

Dirty squirrel is only denying this because he knows how big of a deal this is. How utterly stupid to have given up what we can now never get back instead of just fixing it.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Reality man I am not going to put anyone at risk by mentioning initials here. What I would suggest is that you call whichever Union leader you feel closest to and ask for their opinion. I am completely confident that my information regarding your CEOs take on the decertification is accurate.

I am also completely confident that my information regarding certain flexjet Pilots already approaching njasap is accurate as well. I'm confident because when I first heard this news from a union leader over there I called to verify it with certain members of our
Decertification section I felt would tell me the truth. While they wouldn't confirm talks it already taken place they did confirm there was a plan to approach njasap within the near future.

Surprisingly this information was given to me not only because they want to pursue talks with njasap but they also feel that entering talks will give management all the encouragement it needs to act swiftly on their promises.

Dirty squirrel is only denying this because he knows how big of a deal this is. How utterly stupid to have given up what we can now never get back instead of just fixing it.

This is unbelievable. They trash NJASAP for the past three years. Lie about how they came to be. And who knows what their true motive is? If it's true that they want NJASAP to represent them, then NJASAP should laugh in their faces right before slamming the door on them. Or, if their other plan is to use the NJASAP to make Ricci act, then the irony of that is overwhelming! I thought they trusted the guy to do the right thing? Why would they need to bait him into it? After all, aren't they all family? In either case, I hope the NJASAP tell them to go pound sand.

 

[realityman]

Reality man I am not going to put anyone at risk by mentioning initials here. What I would suggest is that you call whichever Union leader you feel closest to and ask for their opinion. I am completely confident that my information regarding your CEOs take on the decertification is accurate.

I am also completely confident that my information regarding certain flexjet Pilots already approaching njasap is accurate as well. I'm confident because when I first heard this news from a union leader over there I called to verify it with certain members of our
Decertification section I felt would tell me the truth. While they wouldn't confirm talks it already taken place they did confirm there was a plan to approach njasap within the near future.

Surprisingly this information was given to me not only because they want to pursue talks with njasap but they also feel that entering talks will give management all the encouragement it needs to act swiftly on their promises.

Dirty squirrel is only denying this because he knows how big of a deal this is. How utterly stupid to have given up what we can now never get back instead of just fixing it.[OTE]

Then send me the name or initials in a PM. You can clue me in privately without putting anyone at risk. Although I'm not sure what "risk" you're talking about. But okay, I'll check with my union Eboard. Again I'd ask, why would they divulge this information to you, but not to our own pilots? They're all people of great integrity, and have represented us well. And no, I don't believe for one second AJ said anything of the sort to our union leadership. At a time when they're trying to improve things for our clients, it'd be pure stupidity to say something that'd rile up a group known for umm, being "less than efficient" when angry, not to mention making their hiring problems worse. Of course, I don't give AJ a lot of credit for acting intelligently in regards to our union all the time, but issuing such a blatant threat falls outside of the parameters of even his stupidity.

Still, I'll zip off am email later today and see if anyone at the top can confirm we were directly threatened by AJ in the manner you suggested.

As for the rest, sounds like you understand what I wrote. The pilots at Flex will never have a union again. No one will touch you and you just aren't big enough for an in-house union. You folks better hope KR follows through with his promises (LOL! I'm chuckling right now at the fact i even wrote that bit of fiction) because that's literally all you have to protect you. Hope. And V1 is correct. Why would anyone need to try to scare KR into doing the right thing if they believed him to begin with? Unfortunately, KR isn't all that dumb either. I'm certain he's aware you've permanently voted any union off the property. As a "scare tactic", it's not very good.

 

[Cavpilot]

A few points...

First, While the relationship between NJASAP and the NetJets ELT isn't all balloons and ponies, The CEO has not been emboldened into thinking he can threaten their unity by launching a Flexjet style campaign. Yes, they have been keeping their eye on it but their concerns a lot different than what you portray. BTW, I spoke with someone who would have first hand knowledge about this.

Second, The NetJets pilot group is thoroughly disgusted with the Flexjet pilot group right now. If one of our leaders actually suggested changing our charter to allow Flexjet into our union. they would be tared, feathered and run out of town (figuratively speaking, of course).

 

[DirtyBeech]

Something else you won’t hear from the decert crowd, who either doesn’t understand what happened at NJ’s with the 1108 or who purposely distorted what happened there to their own ends, is that there were NJASAP reps sitting in and participating in the phone calls and discussions during the original organizing drive.

Yup, sounds like they hated the Teamsters.

Something else you won’t hear from the decert crowd is that the choice of 1108 wasn’t happenstance. NJASAP, ALPA and others were also approached prior to the selection of representation. NJ’s was embroiled in their own management’s foibles and could/wouldn’t spare the lucre even if they wanted to, and other union shops didn’t think representation of a Frac fell within their by laws. Nor were they willing to approach their various pilot groups to change them.

It’s all history now, but intentionally operating with blinders on has its drawbacks. It’s not often that you can pinpoint the worst decision in your career within months of making it, but I suspect many will come to that conclusion in the near future.