NJASAP Officials stand in front on Flexjet sign with their center fingers extended

[EnFuego]

#Morefakenews by the KR haters. My day rate as a 1st year SIC is 355/day. EnFuego seems to think working less days = more money at NJ. My buddy sent me the 2015 NJ CBA from his P2P and told me that they are in year 4 of their deal. Not sure how a '15 agreement is in year 4 but even so I'm pretty sure that means he makes 350/day. I make 355/day. Check your facts too R-man; I'm looking at the NJ deal and what it says is that up to 20% of a pilots eligible compensation will be subject to the 51% match. I am pretty sure that means if you make 10k/month and can contribute the full 20% to your 401k ($2,000) that they will match $1,020. Keep drinking that juice because with the IRS limit at $18,500/yr, you can't even contribute 20% / pay so it's just lipstick on pig. You KR haters don't have the capacity to think beyond the next item on the checklist.

You make $355 a day by your own admission. The Netjets 52 day (average 13 days per month) pays $59,435. 13x12=156. $59,435/156=$380.99 per day. I know math class is tough Barbie, but there it is.

 

[I'mBack]

R-man - I'm flying today in fact. Showed my captain your post and he tells me that you used to work here. He told me your work for Spirit. Sounds like you are nothing more than a KR hater and a troll from the airline side.I joined in March because that's when I got hired. Try and keep up.

 

[DirtyBeech]

He appears to work for NJ’s but whether he works there, at Spirit, Envoy or the circus doesnt matter.

Either his positions are right or wrong. You have lost the argument when you have to resort to things like “.....you don’t work here.”

 

[realityman]

LOL! You're a genius! Whenever I reference Netjets pilots I say "we". But you had to consult your captain to figure out I fly at Netjets. Bwahahaha! Funny stuff!
Combine your sluething capabilities with your basic math abilities and yes, I'd say you're EXACTLY the sort of employee KR is looking for!

Keep throwing the insults though. I guess you're hoping the rest of us will forget you haven't addressed, using any actual numbers or facts, a single point I've made.

By the way, I did used to fly for KR, but left before he even started FLOPS. So I know EXACTLY what sort of person he is, how well he keeps his promises, and how he compensates his pilots. I've got years more experience with him than you do. But please, keep telling me all about him. I'm a fan of fiction.

 

[Propilot77]

R-man - I'm flying today in fact. Showed my captain your post and he tells me that you used to work here. He told me your work for Spirit. Sounds like you are nothing more than a KR hater and a troll from the airline side.I joined in March because that's when I got hired. Try and keep up.

Pah-leeeeeeze!

 

[I'mBack]

So EnFuego is clearly not relevant in this conversation as he doesn't know anything. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't know the policies if he had it on audibook and listened to it every day. Not to mention he clearly has no ability to network. I only ask EnFuego that you try your second grade math elsewhere.

Wow R-man -- bragging about PTO buybacks. Let me clue you in how KR handles things. Over 12 hours of duty; we get 1.5x our daily rate. Over 14 hours of duty; we get 3x our daily rate. We also get paid for early starts and get extended day pay at 1.5x our daily rate if the company can't get us home by the cut-off + we get work days eliminated (paid) on the other end. Plus I can work as much as I want with no limits to my extended work days at 1.5x my rate. Can you work at much as you want? I didn't think so.

While you may not pay a dime in medical "premium' costs I'm sure NJASAP forgot to tell you that you'll pay more when the insurance bill comes to your home -- did you really think that you're healthcare was free?? I'll admit that I haven't had to use the Medical, Vision or Dental yet but for the pennies it cost per month and not having to pay dues; I guarantee I'll come ahead on this one.

Onto the topic of PTO and Personal Days. I've done my homework. NJ doesn't offer new hires any personal days. #MoreFakeNews Even after you get your PDs, better hope that you know at least 3 days beforehand or else it'll cost you 2 PTO days, unless of course it's one of the 20x per year that those are "not available". And as far as "vacation" at NJ compared to FJ goes... You must be living a good life there if you only get 2 whole weeks from years 1-4. KR gives us 15 days as New Hires in year 1; 17 days in year 2; 22 days in year 3. Sounds like NJ falls short on that one too.

Also - I'm reading the NJ CBA sections 8/10 and wow - good luck getting anything approved if you're a newbie like me or have something come up last minute. WOW! I can't believe you are excited about that contract. Sorry but it's nothing more than a bunch of **** negotiated for a portion of your earnings.

Lets get back to the 401k matching for a new hire at NJ. Year 5 of the NJ agreement on the 7&7 CC60 schedule is 65,728. If that pilot could contribute the max of 20% over each paycheck; he'll contribute 13,145.60/yr. NJ would match @ 53% 6,967.16. A far cry from the $9,805 that you're trying to sell. Now lets be real, it's likely that a NJ new hire contributes 6% which means that pilot will get a whole $2,090.15 vs the same pilot (like myself) who will get 100% match on that 6% @ $3,943.68. Once again a win for FJ.

#RealLifeEconomics

Now if you're a Red Label Captain at FJ, you're making 1090/day (not including OT or the 20% bonus or Fuel Bonuses); those guys are pulling down well north of 12,753/year in 401k matching from KR (this is a minimum). Who wins? Another win for FJ.

I know it's tough to accept but FJ is a much better place than NJ. I'm glad you haters think you know so much. I'm only a 1st year SIC and figured it out. I have 318 pilots here to thank for this opportunity. You are nothing but the same three agitators on this site spreading BS.

 

[imacdog]

NJA does the match for 20% during the year, but will do a catch-up match at the end of the year for contributions over 20%. So, the full 9,805 is available to everyone who puts away the maximum allowable 401K contribution. I was putting away 15% into my 401K as a new hire. I would have received less match from Flex. That's real life economics.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Pathetic attempt to get new blood in to fly their parked airplanes.

 

[imacdog]

And to think, some manager is getting paid to post as a new hire pilot in an attempt to recruit.

 

[DirtyBeech]

And to think, some manager is getting paid to post as a new hire pilot in an attempt to recruit.

You’d think the place sells itself as it’s clearly better than NJ’s. Guess all those parked planes are just being rested for that huge hiring wave one poster was so sure is coming.

 

[realityman]

Most of what you wrote is fiction. At least for most guys there. Funny, I don't see many other FJ guys coming on here and backing that up. "work as much as you want". Bwahahaha! Sure thing! Exactly the attitude of a KR stooge. Actually, I can. But we're paid well enough I don't need to.

If it's so great there, why aren't people beating down the doors to work there? Hmmm, probably because most of what you wrote is fiction.

Any money you can make that might put you over what your counterpart at Netjets makes is based on either working a lot more days (You already work more days than us just on your base schedule) or through "performance bonuses", ie flying broken planes, or tired, or without your meals. I know how this works. "performance bonuses". LOL! Keep "performing" little monkey. KR loves a good show. A newhire's pay at Netjets doesn't go up or down based on "performance". If the plane is broken, it doesn't affect your pay at all to write it up.

Enjoy your little circus over there. The show must go on!

 

[I'mBack]

#MoreFakeNews.... next

 

[realityman]

By the way, nice try at fuzzy math. Why do you say a newhire is "likely" to only contribute 6% to his 401K? See, that's you simply inventing stuff to fit your narrative.

FACT, a newhire here can start off getting over $6000 in company matching to his 401K. A far cry over what old KR will provide. As for your top end guys, how many are actually making that most? Only a few, and the biggest KR stooges. I can see why it's important to you to send love notes to KR.

And your guesses on our out of pocket medical expenses are way off. Our deductibles are about as low as you can go without hitting zero. Are your deductibles zero? If not, I'll stick with what we have over here, thank you. Your attempt to minimize your premiums as "pennies" is laughable. It's over $2000/ year. I know you also pay several hundred for dental.

A whole lotta spin in what you write.

And the biggest point of all you miss, everything you have can now be changed at KR's whims. If he decides you're going to work 10 more days every year for the same pay, that's what you'll do. If he wants certain individuals upgraded out of seniority, that's what'll happen (sorry if it pushes you further away from that captain spot). If he decides your health premiums are going up, they're going up. If he decides to end the 401K matching, it's done (this has happened already by the way followed by three or four changes in his promises about bringing it back). If he wants to fire you for no good reason you can discern, well, bye bye (this too has happened).

Yeah, thanks, but I'll stick with my CBA, flaws and all.

 

[Dooker]

#MoreFakeNews.... next

It's telling that you adopt the mantra of a serial womanizing liar who demands blind loyalty from those around him but offers none himself, who surrounds himself with flunkies and yes-men and who has yet to keep a single promise he made during his campaign.

And don't even get me started on Trump.

 

[I'mBack]

I'm glad you enjoy paying for a **** contract. I'm guessing most of your brothers don't. Mark my words -- FJ figured it out and so will the NJ pilots. Rumors are out there that drones of NJ owners are leaving for FJ because of the attitude of you guys. Keep providing that excellent service R-man. Sounds like another win for FJ.

BTW - here's a post from CA1900...

I'll try to give you my perspective. I was a pilot for Netjets for over a decade, and left for the airlines because my career progression was non-existent. It took me over nine years just to move into the right seat of a slightly more comfortable airplane. I was on track to be a 15-year first officer, and when I finally upgraded, it would have been into the tiniest jet in the fleet (with no APU), most likely until at least age 60.
It was certainly a gamble moving to the bottom of a new seniority list, but after 10+ years, I was only 15% up the list at NJA, so I honestly didn't lose much ground in that respect. There's no retirement age. I believe at this point they have some 80-year-old PICs.

Quote:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: alt2"]Bases...I see the list of bases. Are certain jets paired by bases or are the bases just locations they'll allow you to start/end trips? I assume mostly air lining to wherever the jet is located?[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Anybody can use any base on that list; you're mostly airlining to/from your base. The jets aren't really "based" anywhere, and if you don't happen to pick up one at your home airport (it happens, but rarely), you'll get an airline tickets on each end of your work week. You'll keep the frequent-flier miles (and hotel points), which is nice. There's no ability to jumpseat, so that's your only option for free flying.

Quote:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: alt2"]Bidding...is it based on everyone in your seat/aircraft in the company or just your base?[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Company-wide. Seniority within your fleet/seat applies for vacations and schedules.

Quote:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: alt2"]Pay...I seem to remember that guys say you can expect to make ~10% over the published rates, does that still hold true?[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

More or less. For 2016, it was 9% for me. Some years was as low as 6%.

Quote:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: alt2"]Schedules...I get the 7/7 but what are the other schedules?[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The others are the "Crew Choice" (CC) schedules, the CC52, CC60, CC72, and CC76. Those refer to how many workdays you'll work within the 4-month bid cycle. The CC72, for example, would average to 18 days a month (216/days/yr), which can go up or down by 2 days at scheduling's sole discretion, as long as the total doesn't exceed 72 days in 4 months. So you might work 16, 20, 20, and 16 days in a cycle.

The specific workdays are created as a monthly schedule bid using a preferential bid system, and scheduling will publish your schedule by the 15th of the month prior. Seniority plays very little role in the PBS, and in most cases you'll only be able to get one preference (e.g., a single day off, or want to work holidays) with any degree of success.

If you agree to 8-day tour lengths, there's a 3% pay override for the bid period.

Quote:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: alt2"]Can anyone get them or are they limited/have to bid for them?[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

There are limits. I don't have the CBA in front of me, but if memory serves, the CC52 (lowest-working) schedule is limited to 10% of the pilots in a fleet/seat, as are the schedules with a maximum of 5-day tours. Also, the schedules with 5-day and 6-day tours are limited to a smaller subset of the bases that have significant airline service and a large amount of Netjets customer flights.

Quote:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: alt2"]Any other insight into the operation you think would be pertinent would be appreciated. Thanks guys![/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

One thing you can't bid on is the particular trips, which makes sense because everything is on-demand. You never know where you'll end up, so you'll bring warm and cold weather clothing on every trip.

There are a lot of ancillary tasks in addition to the flying, including loading/unloading luggage, restocking the snacks and drinks, cleaning up after a flight, removing all the liquids every night (and replacing them in the morning) when a plane is parked in freezing weather, and so on. There's a little help from the FBOs, but for the most part it's just a two man show to keep the jet in passenger-ready condition.

When you're on duty at the airport, catered crew meals are provided. Quality varies wildly and is usually mediocre, but it's convenient and fully paid by the company in addition to per diem.

It's a fatiguing, hard job on many days. Circadian shifts are commonplace -- you may report at 10am on your first day, 4am your second, 10pm your third, and be expected to put in a 14-hour day no matter when you start. There's a fatigue policy that most pilots are very familiar with, because you'll be scheduled until you cry uncle with it.

Days are frequently augmented with hours of "hot spare" or "tentative" duty where you're trapped at the airport in case of another assignment. If your scheduled day of flying is less than 10 hours, you're all but guaranteed to have one of these assignments tacked on to bring you up to 12 hours. (More than 12 pays overtime, so that's usually where it stops if nothing comes up.)

It's not a bad job by any means, but it's a lot of work for not a lot of money, comparatively speaking. I think airlines are a far better bet from a career earnings and sanity standpoint, but they aren't for everybody. I wish your friend's son luck in his career!