NJASAP Officials stand in front on Flexjet sign with their center fingers extended

[realityman]

Sounds like NJASAP leadership is telling lies to keep the cool over at NJ. I'm a new hire at FJ and make more $ than my buddies at NJ who got hired. I've been on the road only for a few months but the news I'm hearing at the FBO is that NJASAP leadership is scared.

LOL!!

Looks like the KR propaganda machine is hard at work. This is pretty funny.

Hey chuckles, you do know that anyone can compare payscales on airlinepilotcentral, right? I think we can all see who the liar is in this game.

Unless, of course, you were hired off the street as a captain, in which case congratulations. And thanks for reinforcing the screw job KR is going to be giving all the pilots over there.

 

[I'mBack]

For what it's worth, I know I'm making more than my buddy at NJ. I sent KR a thank you note that day it happened. Perhaps you need to need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. It appears that all the haters ended up looking like a bunch of idiots. I was told I wasn't eligible to vote because of my hire date but I can tell you that it would have been an even larger margin in favor of no representation. You are the minority and should leave if you're unhappy working for KR. I'll admit that I am new to the fractional space but I can tell when BS is flying. You all seem to think you're smarter than the man feeding your families and you're not. I hope KR recognizes my extra effort. I love this job.

 

[EnFuego]

It is possible your paycheck is larger than your friend at NJ. It is not possible that your daily rate is larger. If you work the 7/7 at NJ you will make less than if you work pbs at FlexFlops. You will work 30 more days in a year at FlexFlops.
Example: NJ 7/7 is 26 x 7 days is 182, minus 14 vacation days equals 168 days worked in the year. FlexFlops is 13 x 16 is 208 days worked, minus 10 vacation days equals 198 days worked for the year. So yes, you may have more money at the end of the year, but your friend made much more per day! S/he has, and will continue to have, much better quality of life. As the years progress, s/he will actually have a bigger income with those fewer days worked as well.

 

[realityman]

No, you are not making more than a Netjets new hire. If we're comparing apples and apples here (I'm not sure that w are as I don't know if you're a co-pilot or captain, or if you're even comparing the same year of service) first year co-pilot pay is significantly less at Flex than it is at Netjets. No Kool-aid, just basic reading comprehension of published and confirmed numbers.

Of course, now KR can provide different payscales to whomever he chooses, so yes I suppose you could be makingsomething different from what's published. But again, it would only reinforce the screw job KR is providing to most folks over there. The biggest butt kissers get the best stuff. Huh. Good luck with that. It's great, right until you fall out of favor.

By the way, are you comparing the total compensation package? Aside from Netjets having a significantly higher payscale, they also provide excellent medical coverage, including vision, at no cost to the pilots. 401K matching at 53% right now on the FULL AMOUNT of what a pilot contributes. Not only do they get an extended day rate of 150% of daily rate, but they get hourly overtime for everything over 12 hours of duty (except pin the first day of a tour, which could be a lot more). They NEVER work over 14- hours unless it's extenuating circumstances (which does NOT include because the company wants you to). 4 weeks vacation at 10 years, and we accrue 12 sick days every year, of which 7 can be used as PTO each year and any excess can be sold back to the company at somewhere well north of 100% (the exact figure escapes me right now).

No, you aren't doing anywhere near as well as a Netjets newhire, and even after 15 years won't be doing as well as your counterpart at Netjets.

As for being happy with Flex, your pay and even KR, good for you. I think happiness is the single most important factor in quality of life. All the money in the world won't matter if you're miserable, so glad to hear you're pleased with where you are. I hope you stay that way. You may not believe it, but I hope KR makes every effort to keep you, and your co-workers happy. My experience with him though is he won't. The honeymoon will be over soon enough. Wait until attrition slows down (a good economic hiccup in the economy will reduce airline hiring) and we'll see who's ideas about KR prove to be right. Unfortunately, for many at Flex I don't think it'll take even that long.

 

[I'mBack]

#Morefakenews by the KR haters. My day rate as a 1st year SIC is 355/day. EnFuego seems to think working less days = more money at NJ. My buddy sent me the 2015 NJ CBA from his P2P and told me that they are in year 4 of their deal. Not sure how a '15 agreement is in year 4 but even so I'm pretty sure that means he makes 350/day. I make 355/day. Check your facts too R-man; I'm looking at the NJ deal and what it says is that up to 20% of a pilots eligible compensation will be subject to the 51% match. I am pretty sure that means if you make 10k/month and can contribute the full 20% to your 401k ($2,000) that they will match $1,020. Keep drinking that juice because with the IRS limit at $18,500/yr, you can't even contribute 20% / pay so it's just lipstick on pig. You KR haters don't have the capacity to think beyond the next item on the checklist.

 

[DirtyBeech]

15, 16, 17, 18.

2018 is the fourth year of the deal. Maybe dial back your intelligence insults until you can do basic math.

 

[realityman]

Spin it anyway you like Back, the published payscales at both companies clearly show Netjets with the higher rate. If you make more then congrats. It's only because KR can pay different people different rates now. Hooray for you. Sucks for others who have less chapstick at their disposal.

And nice deflection about the 401K. You tell me, if I contribute the max $18500 into my 401K, and Netjets matches 53% of that, how much would I get? If you contribute $18500 into your 401K, how much does KR match? I know you won't bother putting up the numbers because it doesn't support your "compensated better than Netjets" mantra.
Why don't you put up the amount of overtime you get paid for duty past 12 hours? Oh, please don't tell me there isn't any. *shocked!*. How about PTO days? How about accrued sick days? And if you don't use them, how much do you get for selling them back? Surely it's not zero! So you have the option of selling your vacation back to them? Hmmm. Lots to think on here.

And the biggest kicker, our higher base rates are based on working fewer days than you do. If you want to make a direct comparison, you'd have to compare our 72- day schedule pay to your pay on your base schedule because the actual days worked are similar. Uh oh, looks like Netjets wins again!

Like I said, if you're happy that's great. I'm honestly not telling you to be otherwise. I'm not telling you ANYTHING about how to feel. Merely disputing your facts about compensation.

 

[realityman]

Oh, I forgot some stuff. Why don't you tell us if you have to pay any premium towards your healthcare. Netjets pilots don't pay a dime. Same for dental. And vision. Oh wait, does KR even offer any vision coverage at all? Hmmm.

Yeah, I think the Netjets pilots are doing pretty well in comparison to compensation at Flex.

As I said, if you're happy, great! But let's not confuse fact with fantasy in the world of compensation.

Feel free to post numbers for the questions I asked in my past post and this one. Would love to know more about your superior compensation.

 

[I'mBack]

R-man: I'm only correcting your BS. You only get the match on your "eligible contributions" so lets say that you do contribute the max of 1541.67/month, NJ is matching 53% of that. If you max out your 18500 anytime before the end of the year, you don't get the 53% match. Like I said earlier today - it's lipstick on a pig. Tell me this -- how much lipstick did you have to buy? We had to pay 1.56% worth and I'm guessing you do too. Face it NJASAP negotiated a **** deal that you and your band of brothers have to pay for and you haters are upset that KR on Day 1 made us better paid. Plus we don't have to wait for it or pay 1.56% to get it.

 

[realityman]

Whatever. I notice you've sidestepped pretty much EVERYTHING I brought up, and have basically ignored my question about how much KR actually matches, assuming you contribute the maximum you can. Who gives a crap if I get my $9350 in matching before the end of the year, but you get to spread out your $2000 (or whatever it is) through the whole year. Seriously, that's all you've got?

The payscales are published in various sites for everyone to see. If anyone looks at the Flex payscale and the Netjets payscale and determines that Flex is higher (on money alone), then they'd probably be better off at Flex anyway as we'd prefer to hire people who can tell which numbers are higher than others.

We have issues with our CBA, it's true. And yes, we'll be continually striving to improve it. It'll be a long time before we're truly satisfied with it. Not sugar coating it. But its still head and shoulders above what any other fractional company offers.

You can have the last word. Feel free to start posting actual numbers to back up your points. I'm done feeding the troll. Based on your join date, lack of data about yourself, lack of posts,and KR puckered-lips factor plus your avoidance of facts anyone can easily look up and your clear lack of class in referencing what we have over here, I highly doubt you're a pilot at Flex. Management or hired gun. Either way, what you say makes no difference. Only those who can't read and/or are too lazy to simply do a quick search and look up the pay and benefits at both companies will buy into your fantasy.

 

[EnFuego]

#Morefakenews by the KR haters. My day rate as a 1st year SIC is 355/day. EnFuego seems to think working less days = more money at NJ. My buddy sent me the 2015 NJ CBA from his P2P and told me that they are in year 4 of their deal. Not sure how a '15 agreement is in year 4 but even so I'm pretty sure that means he makes 350/day. I make 355/day. Check your facts too R-man; I'm looking at the NJ deal and what it says is that up to 20% of a pilots eligible compensation will be subject to the 51% match. I am pretty sure that means if you make 10k/month and can contribute the full 20% to your 401k ($2,000) that they will match $1,020. Keep drinking that juice because with the IRS limit at $18,500/yr, you can't even contribute 20% / pay so it's just lipstick on pig. You KR haters don't have the capacity to think beyond the next item on the checklist.

You make $355 a day by your own admission. The Netjets 52 day (average 13 days per month) pays $59,435. 13x12=156. $59,435/156=$380.99 per day. I know math class is tough Barbie, but there it is.

 

[I'mBack]

R-man - I'm flying today in fact. Showed my captain your post and he tells me that you used to work here. He told me your work for Spirit. Sounds like you are nothing more than a KR hater and a troll from the airline side.I joined in March because that's when I got hired. Try and keep up.

 

[DirtyBeech]

He appears to work for NJ’s but whether he works there, at Spirit, Envoy or the circus doesnt matter.

Either his positions are right or wrong. You have lost the argument when you have to resort to things like “.....you don’t work here.”

 

[realityman]

LOL! You're a genius! Whenever I reference Netjets pilots I say "we". But you had to consult your captain to figure out I fly at Netjets. Bwahahaha! Funny stuff!
Combine your sluething capabilities with your basic math abilities and yes, I'd say you're EXACTLY the sort of employee KR is looking for!

Keep throwing the insults though. I guess you're hoping the rest of us will forget you haven't addressed, using any actual numbers or facts, a single point I've made.

By the way, I did used to fly for KR, but left before he even started FLOPS. So I know EXACTLY what sort of person he is, how well he keeps his promises, and how he compensates his pilots. I've got years more experience with him than you do. But please, keep telling me all about him. I'm a fan of fiction.

 

[Propilot77]

R-man - I'm flying today in fact. Showed my captain your post and he tells me that you used to work here. He told me your work for Spirit. Sounds like you are nothing more than a KR hater and a troll from the airline side.I joined in March because that's when I got hired. Try and keep up.

Pah-leeeeeeze!

 

[I'mBack]

So EnFuego is clearly not relevant in this conversation as he doesn't know anything. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't know the policies if he had it on audibook and listened to it every day. Not to mention he clearly has no ability to network. I only ask EnFuego that you try your second grade math elsewhere.

Wow R-man -- bragging about PTO buybacks. Let me clue you in how KR handles things. Over 12 hours of duty; we get 1.5x our daily rate. Over 14 hours of duty; we get 3x our daily rate. We also get paid for early starts and get extended day pay at 1.5x our daily rate if the company can't get us home by the cut-off + we get work days eliminated (paid) on the other end. Plus I can work as much as I want with no limits to my extended work days at 1.5x my rate. Can you work at much as you want? I didn't think so.

While you may not pay a dime in medical "premium' costs I'm sure NJASAP forgot to tell you that you'll pay more when the insurance bill comes to your home -- did you really think that you're healthcare was free?? I'll admit that I haven't had to use the Medical, Vision or Dental yet but for the pennies it cost per month and not having to pay dues; I guarantee I'll come ahead on this one.

Onto the topic of PTO and Personal Days. I've done my homework. NJ doesn't offer new hires any personal days. #MoreFakeNews Even after you get your PDs, better hope that you know at least 3 days beforehand or else it'll cost you 2 PTO days, unless of course it's one of the 20x per year that those are "not available". And as far as "vacation" at NJ compared to FJ goes... You must be living a good life there if you only get 2 whole weeks from years 1-4. KR gives us 15 days as New Hires in year 1; 17 days in year 2; 22 days in year 3. Sounds like NJ falls short on that one too.

Also - I'm reading the NJ CBA sections 8/10 and wow - good luck getting anything approved if you're a newbie like me or have something come up last minute. WOW! I can't believe you are excited about that contract. Sorry but it's nothing more than a bunch of **** negotiated for a portion of your earnings.

Lets get back to the 401k matching for a new hire at NJ. Year 5 of the NJ agreement on the 7&7 CC60 schedule is 65,728. If that pilot could contribute the max of 20% over each paycheck; he'll contribute 13,145.60/yr. NJ would match @ 53% 6,967.16. A far cry from the $9,805 that you're trying to sell. Now lets be real, it's likely that a NJ new hire contributes 6% which means that pilot will get a whole $2,090.15 vs the same pilot (like myself) who will get 100% match on that 6% @ $3,943.68. Once again a win for FJ.

#RealLifeEconomics

Now if you're a Red Label Captain at FJ, you're making 1090/day (not including OT or the 20% bonus or Fuel Bonuses); those guys are pulling down well north of 12,753/year in 401k matching from KR (this is a minimum). Who wins? Another win for FJ.

I know it's tough to accept but FJ is a much better place than NJ. I'm glad you haters think you know so much. I'm only a 1st year SIC and figured it out. I have 318 pilots here to thank for this opportunity. You are nothing but the same three agitators on this site spreading BS.

 

[imacdog]

NJA does the match for 20% during the year, but will do a catch-up match at the end of the year for contributions over 20%. So, the full 9,805 is available to everyone who puts away the maximum allowable 401K contribution. I was putting away 15% into my 401K as a new hire. I would have received less match from Flex. That's real life economics.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Pathetic attempt to get new blood in to fly their parked airplanes.

 

[imacdog]

And to think, some manager is getting paid to post as a new hire pilot in an attempt to recruit.

 

[DirtyBeech]

And to think, some manager is getting paid to post as a new hire pilot in an attempt to recruit.

You’d think the place sells itself as it’s clearly better than NJ’s. Guess all those parked planes are just being rested for that huge hiring wave one poster was so sure is coming.