NJASAP Officials stand in front on Flexjet sign with their center fingers extended

[MOMOMOJO]

OK not really. They have more class than that move.

However two very interesting things happened since the vote on Thursday regarding NJASAP.

The first being their CEO told them they're next. Apparently, the Flexjet vote has emboldened their CEO into thinking he can threaten their unity by launching a Flexjet style campaign. Management appeared at Fridays negotiating session with a less than constructive attitude.

Secondly and this is rich. Some Flexjet pilots (pro decerters not pro union) reached out to some leaders at NJASAP to inquire about starting an organizing campaign now that the Teamsters are gone.

These Flexjet pilots did not understand the NJASAP charter does not allow it nor will NJASAP change their charter for Flexjet. As a matter of fact, what I believe they said was even if the charter was changed to allow another union (like TMC) to come on they would specifically exclude Flexjet from ever being allowed on the charter.

Regarding TMC, the bad news is now that NJASAP has a potential battle on their hands they aren't going to risk diversification any time soon. Flexjet has really hosed those guys.

So now two company's pilot groups hate Flexjet with a passion. How many more will come our in the next few months when the ramifications start being realized?

No pilot union will ever risk organizing Flexjet again. It doesn't even matter if the decert was really a union leadership problem or not. There's no upside for them regardless of what anyone tells you. The risks to their own current membership are too high.

I've spoken with quite a few decerters over this weekend who felt the "lack of immediate raise" and return to longevity were a gut punch. They hope chances for re-unionization are high. They also think the threat of it alone will cause Ricci to act on his promises.

What no one seems to get is now that this has happened not only will we never organize again there is no threat management will feel that will get them to do anything they're not forced to do by the market.

The "fun" is just beginning.

 

[CALRepublic]

Are we doing this now, Once a month someone starts a thread about NJ becoming the next FJ?

here at NJA, the union-management relationship is the best I’ve seen in my 14 years of service. I’m NOT saying everything is perfect, or that peace and harmony abound. But it is the best I’ve seen. I think our CEO is making an effort to have a good relationship with the union and pilot group. With all the bad rep FJ is getting for kicking out the union, our management would be crazy to think about pulling the same stunt. We’re altwady having some issues hiring enough pilots. Why make that even harder?

NJA becoming “the next Flexjet” is probably the last of my concerns.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

No CALRepublic that is not what I'm saying at all. I agree if you guys play it right not only will this not be an issue but actually a boon to your progress.

You need to talk to your union leadership about what the repercussions of last week mean regarding your union-management might be. I know for a fact (heard it directly from a union leader) they are concerned about management's change of tone after Wednesday but feel confident you guys can help each other dominate the market using Flexjet's pilot stupidity to their advantage.

The major point of the post was to underline the fact the industry has real reason to hate us since we hace added extra wrinkles. The other point of the post is to underscore the stupidity of pilots already seeking to organize another union. No union, especially NJASAP will touch Flexjet.

The only thing becoming the next Flexjet will be a dumpster fire. In a few years instead of using that term people in the industry will just say "Flexjet".

Do you disagree?

If I stay, I'm going to work toward the type of prosperity 318 of my colleagues asked me to try but after hearing what I did just this morning from an NJA union leader, I just don't know if my career can survive staying.

Flexjet decerters already talking to NJASAP less than a week out? It's serious sign of trouble for Flexjet.

 

[realityman]

OK not really. They have more class than that move.

However two very interesting things happened since the vote on Thursday regarding NJASAP.

The first being their CEO told them they're next. Apparently, the Flexjet vote has emboldened their CEO into thinking he can threaten their unity by launching a Flexjet style campaign. Management appeared at Fridays negotiating session with a less than constructive attitude.

Secondly and this is rich. Some Flexjet pilots (pro decerters not pro union) reached out to some leaders at NJASAP to inquire about starting an organizing campaign now that the Teamsters are gone.

These Flexjet pilots did not understand the NJASAP charter does not allow it nor will NJASAP change their charter for Flexjet. As a matter of fact, what I believe they said was even if the charter was changed to allow another union (like TMC) to come on they would specifically exclude Flexjet from ever being allowed on the charter.

Regarding TMC, the bad news is now that NJASAP has a potential battle on their hands they aren't going to risk diversification any time soon. Flexjet has really hosed those guys.

So now two company's pilot groups hate Flexjet with a passion. How many more will come our in the next few months when the ramifications start being realized?

No pilot union will ever risk organizing Flexjet again. It doesn't even matter if the decert was really a union leadership problem or not. There's no upside for them regardless of what anyone tells you. The risks to their own current membership are too high.

I've spoken with quite a few decerters over this weekend who felt the "lack of immediate raise" and return to longevity were a gut punch. They hope chances for re-unionization are high. They also think the threat of it alone will cause Ricci to act on his promises.

What no one seems to get is now that this has happened not only will we never organize again there is no threat management will feel that will get them to do anything they're not forced to do by the market.

The "fun" is just beginning.

Can you give the initials of the union "leader" who supposedly gave you this info? I'm pretty up to date on what's going on, and there has been zero talk by anyone anywhere on our side that management over here said we're next. I find it hard to believe one of our Eboard members gave that tidbit of information to someone who isn't a pilot here, but is keeping it a secret from everyone here.

They have mentioned progress at our Joint Working Group has slowed. There has been some chatter from lower level union volunteers that the decert vote is concerning to us for a number of reasons, as well as the same chatter from the members at large, but no one has end remotely implied that anyone from management has straight up told us "we're next".

I'm not suggesting it isn't management's greatest dream to see our union gone, but that's extremely old news. They've tried for YEARS to break our union, and using tactics and methods KR didn't even come close to using at Flex. Yes, we're sorry and concerned he succeeded, but you folks over there have no clue as to what a truly massive and insidious union busting campaign really looks like. KR used lies and propaganda on an a group of people where probably at least half were already predisposed to want the union gone. Sorry, not really that much work for ol KR. We've been through far far worse over here and come out stronger every single time.

So no, I don't believe our management told our leaders "we're next". They've already experienced first hand what a strong union that is attacked can do to the business.

As for folks on your side wanting a different union, I wouldn't be surprised. However, it's been explained ad nauseum that you have to wait a year before you can organise again, but even then there is no union that will touch you as you've already displayed you (As a group) aren't good for a union to be involved with. Compared to other unionized groups you're fairly small. Most unions would put more money into helping you than they'd receive from dues. So after investing the time and money into your group, you have shown (again, as a group) you'll believe management over them and cut and run when things get bumpy. Again, no one is ever going to touch you. As for NJASAP organizing you under our banner, yes, that could never happen. And quite frankly, while many of us (including myself) feel very sorry for you (well, at least 220 of you), our members are of the same stance that you'd be a terrible investment. I'm sure our union folks would always be available to assist you if/when you decide to unionize again, but it won't be as part of our union. Something like that would likely (at the very least) require a vote by our membership, and I'm almost 100% positive it wouldn't go your way.

Good luck to all of you. In my previous life I flew for KR. He is a lying weasel of epic proportions and now has the ability to screw with you at will with no consequences. And all of you didn't just vote to kick out the union, you've voted to forever be a non-union shop. Give it a year, then come back and let's see all the promises he'll have delivered on.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

OK not really. They have more class than that move.

However two very interesting things happened since the vote on Thursday regarding NJASAP.

The first being their CEO told them they're next. Apparently, the Flexjet vote has emboldened their CEO into thinking he can threaten their unity by launching a Flexjet style campaign. Management appeared at Fridays negotiating session with a less than constructive attitude.

Secondly and this is rich. Some Flexjet pilots (pro decerters not pro union) reached out to some leaders at NJASAP to inquire about starting an organizing campaign now that the Teamsters are gone.

These Flexjet pilots did not understand the NJASAP charter does not allow it nor will NJASAP change their charter for Flexjet. As a matter of fact, what I believe they said was even if the charter was changed to allow another union (like TMC) to come on they would specifically exclude Flexjet from ever being allowed on the charter.

Regarding TMC, the bad news is now that NJASAP has a potential battle on their hands they aren't going to risk diversification any time soon. Flexjet has really hosed those guys.

So now two company's pilot groups hate Flexjet with a passion. How many more will come our in the next few months when the ramifications start being realized?

No pilot union will ever risk organizing Flexjet again. It doesn't even matter if the decert was really a union leadership problem or not. There's no upside for them regardless of what anyone tells you. The risks to their own current membership are too high.

I've spoken with quite a few decerters over this weekend who felt the "lack of immediate raise" and return to longevity were a gut punch. They hope chances for re-unionization are high. They also think the threat of it alone will cause Ricci to act on his promises.

What no one seems to get is now that this has happened not only will we never organize again there is no threat management will feel that will get them to do anything they're not forced to do by the market.

The "fun" is just beginning.

Fake news. Next...

 

[MOMOMOJO]

Reality man I am not going to put anyone at risk by mentioning initials here. What I would suggest is that you call whichever Union leader you feel closest to and ask for their opinion. I am completely confident that my information regarding your CEOs take on the decertification is accurate.

I am also completely confident that my information regarding certain flexjet Pilots already approaching njasap is accurate as well. I'm confident because when I first heard this news from a union leader over there I called to verify it with certain members of our
Decertification section I felt would tell me the truth. While they wouldn't confirm talks it already taken place they did confirm there was a plan to approach njasap within the near future.

Surprisingly this information was given to me not only because they want to pursue talks with njasap but they also feel that entering talks will give management all the encouragement it needs to act swiftly on their promises.

Dirty squirrel is only denying this because he knows how big of a deal this is. How utterly stupid to have given up what we can now never get back instead of just fixing it.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Reality man I am not going to put anyone at risk by mentioning initials here. What I would suggest is that you call whichever Union leader you feel closest to and ask for their opinion. I am completely confident that my information regarding your CEOs take on the decertification is accurate.

I am also completely confident that my information regarding certain flexjet Pilots already approaching njasap is accurate as well. I'm confident because when I first heard this news from a union leader over there I called to verify it with certain members of our
Decertification section I felt would tell me the truth. While they wouldn't confirm talks it already taken place they did confirm there was a plan to approach njasap within the near future.

Surprisingly this information was given to me not only because they want to pursue talks with njasap but they also feel that entering talks will give management all the encouragement it needs to act swiftly on their promises.

Dirty squirrel is only denying this because he knows how big of a deal this is. How utterly stupid to have given up what we can now never get back instead of just fixing it.

This is unbelievable. They trash NJASAP for the past three years. Lie about how they came to be. And who knows what their true motive is? If it's true that they want NJASAP to represent them, then NJASAP should laugh in their faces right before slamming the door on them. Or, if their other plan is to use the NJASAP to make Ricci act, then the irony of that is overwhelming! I thought they trusted the guy to do the right thing? Why would they need to bait him into it? After all, aren't they all family? In either case, I hope the NJASAP tell them to go pound sand.

 

[realityman]

Reality man I am not going to put anyone at risk by mentioning initials here. What I would suggest is that you call whichever Union leader you feel closest to and ask for their opinion. I am completely confident that my information regarding your CEOs take on the decertification is accurate.

I am also completely confident that my information regarding certain flexjet Pilots already approaching njasap is accurate as well. I'm confident because when I first heard this news from a union leader over there I called to verify it with certain members of our
Decertification section I felt would tell me the truth. While they wouldn't confirm talks it already taken place they did confirm there was a plan to approach njasap within the near future.

Surprisingly this information was given to me not only because they want to pursue talks with njasap but they also feel that entering talks will give management all the encouragement it needs to act swiftly on their promises.

Dirty squirrel is only denying this because he knows how big of a deal this is. How utterly stupid to have given up what we can now never get back instead of just fixing it.[OTE]

Then send me the name or initials in a PM. You can clue me in privately without putting anyone at risk. Although I'm not sure what "risk" you're talking about. But okay, I'll check with my union Eboard. Again I'd ask, why would they divulge this information to you, but not to our own pilots? They're all people of great integrity, and have represented us well. And no, I don't believe for one second AJ said anything of the sort to our union leadership. At a time when they're trying to improve things for our clients, it'd be pure stupidity to say something that'd rile up a group known for umm, being "less than efficient" when angry, not to mention making their hiring problems worse. Of course, I don't give AJ a lot of credit for acting intelligently in regards to our union all the time, but issuing such a blatant threat falls outside of the parameters of even his stupidity.

Still, I'll zip off am email later today and see if anyone at the top can confirm we were directly threatened by AJ in the manner you suggested.

As for the rest, sounds like you understand what I wrote. The pilots at Flex will never have a union again. No one will touch you and you just aren't big enough for an in-house union. You folks better hope KR follows through with his promises (LOL! I'm chuckling right now at the fact i even wrote that bit of fiction) because that's literally all you have to protect you. Hope. And V1 is correct. Why would anyone need to try to scare KR into doing the right thing if they believed him to begin with? Unfortunately, KR isn't all that dumb either. I'm certain he's aware you've permanently voted any union off the property. As a "scare tactic", it's not very good.

 

[Cavpilot]

A few points...

First, While the relationship between NJASAP and the NetJets ELT isn't all balloons and ponies, The CEO has not been emboldened into thinking he can threaten their unity by launching a Flexjet style campaign. Yes, they have been keeping their eye on it but their concerns a lot different than what you portray. BTW, I spoke with someone who would have first hand knowledge about this.

Second, The NetJets pilot group is thoroughly disgusted with the Flexjet pilot group right now. If one of our leaders actually suggested changing our charter to allow Flexjet into our union. they would be tared, feathered and run out of town (figuratively speaking, of course).

 

[DirtyBeech]

Something else you won’t hear from the decert crowd, who either doesn’t understand what happened at NJ’s with the 1108 or who purposely distorted what happened there to their own ends, is that there were NJASAP reps sitting in and participating in the phone calls and discussions during the original organizing drive.

Yup, sounds like they hated the Teamsters.

Something else you won’t hear from the decert crowd is that the choice of 1108 wasn’t happenstance. NJASAP, ALPA and others were also approached prior to the selection of representation. NJ’s was embroiled in their own management’s foibles and could/wouldn’t spare the lucre even if they wanted to, and other union shops didn’t think representation of a Frac fell within their by laws. Nor were they willing to approach their various pilot groups to change them.

It’s all history now, but intentionally operating with blinders on has its drawbacks. It’s not often that you can pinpoint the worst decision in your career within months of making it, but I suspect many will come to that conclusion in the near future.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Dirty squirrel is only denying this because he knows how big of a deal this is. How utterly stupid to have given up what we can now never get back instead of just fixing it.

I’m not denying it, but I smell a rat. Doesn’t seem like the decert Crew would do that, especially when they would have to wait a year. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and wait to see if what you said is fact or just opinion.

 

[CALRepublic]

At present Flexjet is the industry’s red headed step child. I gotta think management will try to capitalize on that. Probably start a charm offensive campaign to attract pilots, maybe titled “come to NJA where management and the union will be working together for years to come”

I’m sure they’re thinking it

 

[Propilot77]

why do you care so much? Didn't you leave too?

Whats this yet another brand new screen name?

 

[DirtyBeech]

Whats this yet another brand new screen name?

Makes you wonder why someone would drop $10 to create an account and try to out a poster (enjoy your ban btw). I mean, it’s just a website inhabited by the same 6 malcontents. Nobody reads it right? All those sweet decert boos have better things to do don’t they? Couldn’t possibly be hitting home could I?

For the toolset in question, your question has been answered in the very forum you just dropped cash to be banned from.

 

[I'mBack]

Sounds like NJASAP leadership is telling lies to keep the cool over at NJ. I'm a new hire at FJ and make more $ than my buddies at NJ who got hired. I've been on the road only for a few months but the news I'm hearing at the FBO is that NJASAP leadership is scared.

 

[IWorkAtSpirit]

Makes you wonder why someone would drop $10 to create an account and try to out a poster (enjoy your ban btw). I mean, it’s just a website inhabited by the same 6 malcontents. Nobody reads it right? All those sweet decert boos have better things to do don’t they? Couldn’t possibly be hitting home could I?

For the toolset in question, your question has been answered in the very forum you just dropped cash to be banned from.

You guys are silly...I didn't pay $10 to join. I didn't even get banned

Anyways - I must not have seen where you introduced yourself. Again, just confused why you care so much. But I am cool with it! Keep drinking your Kool-Aid.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds like NJASAP leadership is telling lies to keep the cool over at NJ. I'm a new hire at FJ and make more $ than my buddies at NJ who got hired. I've been on the road only for a few months but the news I'm hearing at the FBO is that NJASAP leadership is scared.

What is your source for this. Is your buddy really making more? I highly doubt it.

 

[DirtyBeech]

You’ll be banned shortly. And unless FI changed their ways you paid which makes you both a liar and someone who is trying to intimidate other by naming contrary to posted forum rules.

This is your decert crowd.

 

[IWorkAtSpirit]

You’ll be banned shortly. And unless FI changed their ways you paid which makes you both a liar and someone who is trying to intimidate other by naming contrary to posted forum rules.

This is your decert crowd.

I frankly don't have a dog in the fight anymore...Just like you. So I guess I could take my own advice I try to give you. Perhaps I am a hypocrite. I guess I fit right in here

That's your name? I just thought it was your initials. Everyone throws out initials around here so I get confused.

Also - no you don't have to pay anymore. I would appreciate you not calling me a liar.

 

[Propilot77]

I frankly don't have a dog in the fight anymore...Just like you. So I guess I could take my own advice I try to give you. Perhaps I am a hypocrite. I guess I fit right in here

Also - no you don't have to pay anymore. I would appreciate you not calling me a liar.

Wow the truth must hurt for you to create yet another screen name to fight off the negativity.

 

[Cavpilot]

Sounds like NJASAP leadership is telling lies to keep the cool over at NJ. I'm a new hire at FJ and make more $ than my buddies at NJ who got hired. I've been on the road only for a few months but the news I'm hearing at the FBO is that NJASAP leadership is scared.

OMG! I damn near blew bourbon out of my nose after reading this. Thanks for the good laugh!

 

[realityman]

Sounds like NJASAP leadership is telling lies to keep the cool over at NJ. I'm a new hire at FJ and make more $ than my buddies at NJ who got hired. I've been on the road only for a few months but the news I'm hearing at the FBO is that NJASAP leadership is scared.

LOL!!

Looks like the KR propaganda machine is hard at work. This is pretty funny.

Hey chuckles, you do know that anyone can compare payscales on airlinepilotcentral, right? I think we can all see who the liar is in this game.

Unless, of course, you were hired off the street as a captain, in which case congratulations. And thanks for reinforcing the screw job KR is going to be giving all the pilots over there.

 

[I'mBack]

For what it's worth, I know I'm making more than my buddy at NJ. I sent KR a thank you note that day it happened. Perhaps you need to need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. It appears that all the haters ended up looking like a bunch of idiots. I was told I wasn't eligible to vote because of my hire date but I can tell you that it would have been an even larger margin in favor of no representation. You are the minority and should leave if you're unhappy working for KR. I'll admit that I am new to the fractional space but I can tell when BS is flying. You all seem to think you're smarter than the man feeding your families and you're not. I hope KR recognizes my extra effort. I love this job.

 

[EnFuego]

It is possible your paycheck is larger than your friend at NJ. It is not possible that your daily rate is larger. If you work the 7/7 at NJ you will make less than if you work pbs at FlexFlops. You will work 30 more days in a year at FlexFlops.
Example: NJ 7/7 is 26 x 7 days is 182, minus 14 vacation days equals 168 days worked in the year. FlexFlops is 13 x 16 is 208 days worked, minus 10 vacation days equals 198 days worked for the year. So yes, you may have more money at the end of the year, but your friend made much more per day! S/he has, and will continue to have, much better quality of life. As the years progress, s/he will actually have a bigger income with those fewer days worked as well.

 

[realityman]

No, you are not making more than a Netjets new hire. If we're comparing apples and apples here (I'm not sure that w are as I don't know if you're a co-pilot or captain, or if you're even comparing the same year of service) first year co-pilot pay is significantly less at Flex than it is at Netjets. No Kool-aid, just basic reading comprehension of published and confirmed numbers.

Of course, now KR can provide different payscales to whomever he chooses, so yes I suppose you could be makingsomething different from what's published. But again, it would only reinforce the screw job KR is providing to most folks over there. The biggest butt kissers get the best stuff. Huh. Good luck with that. It's great, right until you fall out of favor.

By the way, are you comparing the total compensation package? Aside from Netjets having a significantly higher payscale, they also provide excellent medical coverage, including vision, at no cost to the pilots. 401K matching at 53% right now on the FULL AMOUNT of what a pilot contributes. Not only do they get an extended day rate of 150% of daily rate, but they get hourly overtime for everything over 12 hours of duty (except pin the first day of a tour, which could be a lot more). They NEVER work over 14- hours unless it's extenuating circumstances (which does NOT include because the company wants you to). 4 weeks vacation at 10 years, and we accrue 12 sick days every year, of which 7 can be used as PTO each year and any excess can be sold back to the company at somewhere well north of 100% (the exact figure escapes me right now).

No, you aren't doing anywhere near as well as a Netjets newhire, and even after 15 years won't be doing as well as your counterpart at Netjets.

As for being happy with Flex, your pay and even KR, good for you. I think happiness is the single most important factor in quality of life. All the money in the world won't matter if you're miserable, so glad to hear you're pleased with where you are. I hope you stay that way. You may not believe it, but I hope KR makes every effort to keep you, and your co-workers happy. My experience with him though is he won't. The honeymoon will be over soon enough. Wait until attrition slows down (a good economic hiccup in the economy will reduce airline hiring) and we'll see who's ideas about KR prove to be right. Unfortunately, for many at Flex I don't think it'll take even that long.

 

[I'mBack]

#Morefakenews by the KR haters. My day rate as a 1st year SIC is 355/day. EnFuego seems to think working less days = more money at NJ. My buddy sent me the 2015 NJ CBA from his P2P and told me that they are in year 4 of their deal. Not sure how a '15 agreement is in year 4 but even so I'm pretty sure that means he makes 350/day. I make 355/day. Check your facts too R-man; I'm looking at the NJ deal and what it says is that up to 20% of a pilots eligible compensation will be subject to the 51% match. I am pretty sure that means if you make 10k/month and can contribute the full 20% to your 401k ($2,000) that they will match $1,020. Keep drinking that juice because with the IRS limit at $18,500/yr, you can't even contribute 20% / pay so it's just lipstick on pig. You KR haters don't have the capacity to think beyond the next item on the checklist.

 

[DirtyBeech]

15, 16, 17, 18.

2018 is the fourth year of the deal. Maybe dial back your intelligence insults until you can do basic math.

 

[realityman]

Spin it anyway you like Back, the published payscales at both companies clearly show Netjets with the higher rate. If you make more then congrats. It's only because KR can pay different people different rates now. Hooray for you. Sucks for others who have less chapstick at their disposal.

And nice deflection about the 401K. You tell me, if I contribute the max $18500 into my 401K, and Netjets matches 53% of that, how much would I get? If you contribute $18500 into your 401K, how much does KR match? I know you won't bother putting up the numbers because it doesn't support your "compensated better than Netjets" mantra.
Why don't you put up the amount of overtime you get paid for duty past 12 hours? Oh, please don't tell me there isn't any. *shocked!*. How about PTO days? How about accrued sick days? And if you don't use them, how much do you get for selling them back? Surely it's not zero! So you have the option of selling your vacation back to them? Hmmm. Lots to think on here.

And the biggest kicker, our higher base rates are based on working fewer days than you do. If you want to make a direct comparison, you'd have to compare our 72- day schedule pay to your pay on your base schedule because the actual days worked are similar. Uh oh, looks like Netjets wins again!

Like I said, if you're happy that's great. I'm honestly not telling you to be otherwise. I'm not telling you ANYTHING about how to feel. Merely disputing your facts about compensation.

 

[realityman]

Oh, I forgot some stuff. Why don't you tell us if you have to pay any premium towards your healthcare. Netjets pilots don't pay a dime. Same for dental. And vision. Oh wait, does KR even offer any vision coverage at all? Hmmm.

Yeah, I think the Netjets pilots are doing pretty well in comparison to compensation at Flex.

As I said, if you're happy, great! But let's not confuse fact with fantasy in the world of compensation.

Feel free to post numbers for the questions I asked in my past post and this one. Would love to know more about your superior compensation.

 

[I'mBack]

R-man: I'm only correcting your BS. You only get the match on your "eligible contributions" so lets say that you do contribute the max of 1541.67/month, NJ is matching 53% of that. If you max out your 18500 anytime before the end of the year, you don't get the 53% match. Like I said earlier today - it's lipstick on a pig. Tell me this -- how much lipstick did you have to buy? We had to pay 1.56% worth and I'm guessing you do too. Face it NJASAP negotiated a **** deal that you and your band of brothers have to pay for and you haters are upset that KR on Day 1 made us better paid. Plus we don't have to wait for it or pay 1.56% to get it.

 

[realityman]

Whatever. I notice you've sidestepped pretty much EVERYTHING I brought up, and have basically ignored my question about how much KR actually matches, assuming you contribute the maximum you can. Who gives a crap if I get my $9350 in matching before the end of the year, but you get to spread out your $2000 (or whatever it is) through the whole year. Seriously, that's all you've got?

The payscales are published in various sites for everyone to see. If anyone looks at the Flex payscale and the Netjets payscale and determines that Flex is higher (on money alone), then they'd probably be better off at Flex anyway as we'd prefer to hire people who can tell which numbers are higher than others.

We have issues with our CBA, it's true. And yes, we'll be continually striving to improve it. It'll be a long time before we're truly satisfied with it. Not sugar coating it. But its still head and shoulders above what any other fractional company offers.

You can have the last word. Feel free to start posting actual numbers to back up your points. I'm done feeding the troll. Based on your join date, lack of data about yourself, lack of posts,and KR puckered-lips factor plus your avoidance of facts anyone can easily look up and your clear lack of class in referencing what we have over here, I highly doubt you're a pilot at Flex. Management or hired gun. Either way, what you say makes no difference. Only those who can't read and/or are too lazy to simply do a quick search and look up the pay and benefits at both companies will buy into your fantasy.