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NJASAP Officials stand in front on Flexjet sign with their center fingers extended

squawk

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Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Posts
137
Oh I'm pretty sure my 1.5% gets more than paid back with zero premium health care, higher salary, higher retirement contribution, and solidified work rules. I'm quite happy having representation. So, it seems, are 90,000 other unionized professional pilots.

All good deals. Not IBT1108 deals.
 

DirtyBeech

The Last Starfighter
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Posts
782
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A fun exercise for some of you would be to lay hands on the 1108 contract proposals and see how many of them are met or exceeded by your union free management now that they are unleashed to dispense their goodwill upon the remaining FJ pilots.
 

V1 Rotate

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Mar 9, 2006
Posts
529
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A fun exercise for some of you would be to lay hands on the 1108 contract proposals and see how many of them are met or exceeded by your union free management now that they are unleashed to dispense their goodwill upon the remaining FJ pilots.

.....and then compare the JCBA to the company’s proposals. You know, the JCBA that they all hated so much.
 

I'mBack

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Posts
57
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Great comeback imac. The difference between FJ and the other 90,000 "unionized" pilots is that we had a choice. You don't. Give those 90,000 pilots a choice and you'll soon find out that it'll be you guys (alone) paying for nothing. Do you really think NJASAP cares what deal you get? They are more concerned over what's happening at NJ as solidarity is being eroded by the pilots that have wised up. Wait till they tell you that concessions have to be made (all while they collect your dues). Remember that WB and AJ are the ones writing your checks. Lets see how long it takes WB to wise up to your superior performance. Perhaps we should email some of these posts to his office in NB. Like I said early, keep up the great work. Also please hire EnFuego. He so badly wants to get paid for no work. You'll need more guys like him if you're going to have a strong contract.

BTW - did anyone fact check if there's 90,000 unionized pilots or is that more Fake News? Must be true if the Union says it's true (I forgot).
 

exagony

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Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Posts
371
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5000+
BTW - did anyone fact check if there's 90,000 unionized pilots or is that more Fake News? Must be true if the Union says it's true (I forgot).[/QUOTE]

Without even going into airlines like Air France, British Airways etc -there are over 101.477 unionized pilots and growing according to the numbers at APC.... and 318 fuc@tards like you at flexjet. Once again you can't get your facts straight.

- - - Updated - - -

Great comeback imac. The difference between FJ and the other 90,000 "unionized" pilots is that we had a choice. You don't. Give those 90,000 pilots a choice and you'll soon find out that it'll be you guys (alone) paying for nothing. Do you really think NJASAP cares what deal you get? They are more concerned over what's happening at NJ as solidarity is being eroded by the pilots that have wised up. Wait till they tell you that concessions have to be made (all while they collect your dues). Remember that WB and AJ are the ones writing your checks. Lets see how long it takes WB to wise up to your superior performance. Perhaps we should email some of these posts to his office in NB. Like I said early, keep up the great work. Also please hire EnFuego. He so badly wants to get paid for no work. You'll need more guys like him if you're going to have a strong contract.

BTW - did anyone fact check if there's 90,000 unionized pilots or is that more Fake News? Must be true if the Union says it's true (I forgot).


Without even going into airlines like Air France, British Airways etc -there are over 101.477 unionized pilots and growing according to the numbers at APC.... and 318 fuc@tards like you at flexjet. Once again you can't get your facts straight.
 

Kermit_D_Frog

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Jan 9, 2006
Posts
115
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>6000
So sad its comical. Never imagined the place could turn into this big of a train wreck.
 
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DirtyBeech

The Last Starfighter
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Posts
782
Total Time
Enough
The problem with being a dumba$$ is that everyone is smarter than you.

AK 1960
AA 14503
DAL 14600
HAL 766
UAL 12517
ALG 910
F9 1177
B6 3578
SWA 9277
NKS 2206
Sun Cntry 314
VX 834
UPS 2725
So Air 254
Skylease 47
No Air Cargo 55
Kalitta 410
FedEx 4572
ATI 240
ABX 248
Atlas 1620
Omni 229
Miami 70
Wizz Air 547
Commute Air 275
Compass 663
Endeavor 1905
Envoy 2400
Expressjet 1865
Gojet 600
Horizon 810
Mesa 1200
Piedmont 715
PSA 1805
Republic 2000
TSA 600
NJ’s 2450
TMC 100
—————————————————
91,047 pilots

That’s organizations I’ve actually heard of and numbers that are probably low from APC. Conservatively there’s probably really 95-100k unionized pilots in our industry.

Let me tell you what 1.56% doesn’t do. It doesn’t get tired of me calling in fatigued. It doesn’t ask me to participate in rolling rest. It doesn’t question me when a plane breaks. It doesn’t ask me to fudge performance. It doesn’t ignore seniority. It doesn’t play in the gray areas. It doesn’t arbitrarily decide to not pay a bonus, reduce retirement, take away accrued sick days, or eliminate vacations. It doesn’t fire pilots illegally. And on, and on and on....Yeah, you pay for your free “relationship” with Onesky management.

And I love how 1.56% is some kind of rallying cry. That’s $130ish a month on $100k and $315ish a month on $250k. Are you that terrible at managing your money? No really? 2-5 times the national average in income and $130-315 breaks the bank?

I will pay about $780 in dues this year. A back breaking $65/month. What did I get for that terrible burden?

I received a $5000 ratification bonus when our contract passed. Looks like I’m paid up for a few years.

I received direct contribution 401k that will work up to 15%. Oh, btw, when there’s a dc involved the limit bumps up to $53k. Hope you like that 6% match.

I received LTD for life if I’m injured.

I received pay rates that increase annually and on the anniversary date of signing that can’t be changed on a whim.

Scope

Min daily guarantee

Yearly increasing per diem

And on, and on and on....at a lowly ULCC.

Yeah. That’s a good trade. And it’s why the fracs are in serious trouble with pilot recruitment Ken Ricci or no.

As for my being the worst failure in the history of aviation....hyperbole much? What does that make a guy who failed four consecutive Lear checkrides? Or was it more? They named it TRB Tuesday in your honor.

So go on, let’s see what other numbers you can throw out and get squashed on.
 
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V1 Rotate

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Posts
529
Total Time
10000+
The problem with being a dumba$$ is that everyone is smarter than you.

AK 1960
AA 14503
DAL 14600
HAL 766
UAL 12517
ALG 910
F9 1177
B6 3578
SWA 9277
NKS 2206
Sun Cntry 314
VX 834
UPS 2725
So Air 254
Skylease 47
No Air Cargo 55
Kalitta 410
FedEx 4572
ATI 240
ABX 248
Atlas 1620
Omni 229
Miami 70
Wizz Air 547
Commute Air 275
Compass 663
Endeavor 1905
Envoy 2400
Expressjet 1865
Gojet 600
Horizon 810
Mesa 1200
Piedmont 715
PSA 1805
Republic 2000
TSA 600
NJ’s 2450
TMC 100
—————————————————
91,047 pilots

That’s organizations I’ve actually heard of and numbers that are probably low from APC. Conservatively there’s probably really 95-100k unionized pilots in our industry.

Let me tell you what 1.56% doesn’t do. It doesn’t get tired of me calling in fatigued. It doesn’t ask me to participate in rolling rest. It doesn’t question me when a plane breaks. It doesn’t ask me to fudge performance. It doesn’t ignore seniority. It doesn’t play in the gray areas. It doesn’t arbitrarily decide to not pay a bonus, reduce retirement, take away accrued sick days, or eliminate vacations. It doesn’t fire pilots illegally. And on, and on and on....Yeah, you pay for your free “relationship” with Onesky management.

And I love how 1.56% is some kind of rallying cry. That’s $130ish a month on $100k and $315ish a month on $250k. Are you that terrible at managing your money? No really? 2-5 times the national average in income and $130-315 breaks the bank?

I will pay about $780 in dues this year. A back breaking $65/month. What did I get for that terrible burden?

I received a $5000 ratification bonus when our contract passed. Looks like I’m paid up for a few years.

I received direct contribution 401k that will work up to 15%. Oh, btw, when there’s a dc involved the limit bumps up to $53k. Hope you like that 6% match.

I received LTD for life if I’m injured.

I received pay rates that increase annually and on the anniversary date of signing that can’t be changed on a whim.

Scope

Min daily guarantee

Yearly increasing per diem

And on, and on and on....at a lowly ULCC.

Yeah. That’s a good trade. And it’s why the fracs are in serious trouble with pilot recruitment Ken Ricci or no.

As for my being the worst failure in the history of aviation....hyperbole much? What does that make a guy who failed four consecutive Lear checkrides? Or was it more? They named it TRB Tuesday in your honor.

So go on, let’s see what other numbers you can throw out and get squashed on.

Nicely done, sir.
 

gunfyter

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Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Posts
3,781
Total Time
11000+
This is a capture of a spreadsheet I created to project W2 income... for an NJA SIC hired right now ... working the 72-day schedule and estimating 10% overtime and holiday pay over base pay. I colored the background of the figures that apply on the chart for this new hire. I think this is pretty accurate as a minimum because when I generate the numbers for 20 year PIC using the same sheet ... it matches my own W2. We know its low but it was best we could do in 2015 as it was not as obvious the economy would turn as positive as it has. But all in all, I am happy with the 1.5% I invest MINUS the 20% dues refunds we received past two years.

Columns are year of contract ... Rows are Years of Service



SIC.PNG

Link to google sheet you can edit yourself to make own projections

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/105RhAswiCjjPIww7sb2-TwPfQakHuBqtoek1a-cwhME/edit?usp=sharing
 
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gunfyter

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Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Posts
3,781
Total Time
11000+
Same chart for PIC. I believe all current PICs are either on the year 15 row or the year 18 row. 72-day schedule = 216 work days/yr minus 28 vacation days and 12 sick/PTO. Or 176 days on the road. This simply estimates 10% on top of base pay for unavoidable HOURLY overtime and holiday pay.

pic.PNG
 
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Dooker

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Apr 19, 2007
Posts
344
Total Time
25,000
I'm no expert, since I left Flexjet two years ago, but I'm pretty sure the only way a senior Flexjet guy would ever make anything close to that is on Domestic Red Label. And only by agreeing to waive the various work rules that applied to the rest of the fleet.

But you're saying that guys at Netjets have a contract that guarantees them that pay, along with decent work rules and great health care?

Again, I'm no expert, but it would seem that it's better to have a contract.
 

MOMOMOJO

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Posts
92
I'm no expert, since I left Flexjet two years ago, but I'm pretty sure the only way a senior Flexjet guy would ever make anything close to that is on Domestic Red Label. And only by agreeing to waive the various work rules that applied to the rest of the fleet.

But you're saying that guys at Netjets have a contract that guarantees them that pay, along with decent work rules and great health care?

Again, I'm no expert, but it would seem that it's better to have a contract.

The fact we've already had several +20 year and another handful of +15 year pilots give their notice in the past week since the vote would say your'e not alone in your opinion.

The interesting thing is not all were strong union supporters but all see the train wreck coming. All are taking quite a hit on salary for at least a few years proving it's about way more than money.

I heard there was a plan from some other PPUs to get help with interviews and placement for pre-February MIGS who want to leave but former leadership has been effectively neutered so there's no list to share. Those withdrawl cards will end up being worth their weight in gold if they ever come.
 

I'mBack

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#FakeNews by Momomojo. This was an easy one to find the #TRUTH. Called the company and asked. Only one person has given notice. I didn't know MG but can assume he was a Kool-Aid drinker. As far as MIGS go and your threat of "a list being its weight in gold", I heard a rumor that nearly 85% of the pilots were delinquent in dues and that's why the Union had to forgive all the amounts owed pre-February. I only had to experience the Union for a couple months but from my POV they were some of the most imbecile minded.

I did some of my own homework based on #real_information. According to the last FJ seniority list, there are over 200 Red Label pilots with the majority of them at the top of their pay scale = 1090/day (base rate). Since some of the NJ pilots decided to compare it against the 217/days/yr schedule at NJ, let's do the same at FJ. The base rate would be 236,530. Bonus would be 47,306. Fuel Bonus 2000. Overtime (conservative) @ 10% would be another 23,653. 401k matching 15,610.98. If you add all that up (not counting 401k matching) is 309,489.00. This doesn't even consider all the other pay we get like per diem @ 9114 or extended day payments or voluntary days.

#DropTheMic
 

Club ORD FO

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Posts
608
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#FakeNews by Momomojo. This was an easy one to find the #TRUTH. Called the company and asked. Only one person has given notice. I didn't know MG but can assume he was a Kool-Aid drinker. As far as MIGS go and your threat of "a list being its weight in gold", I heard a rumor that nearly 85% of the pilots were delinquent in dues and that's why the Union had to forgive all the amounts owed pre-February. I only had to experience the Union for a couple months but from my POV they were some of the most imbecile minded.

I did some of my own homework based on #real_information. According to the last FJ seniority list, there are over 200 Red Label pilots with the majority of them at the top of their pay scale = 1090/day (base rate). Since some of the NJ pilots decided to compare it against the 217/days/yr schedule at NJ, let's do the same at FJ. The base rate would be 236,530. Bonus would be 47,306. Fuel Bonus 2000. Overtime (conservative) @ 10% would be another 23,653. 401k matching 15,610.98. If you add all that up (not counting 401k matching) is 309,489.00. This doesn't even consider all the other pay we get like per diem @ 9114 or extended day payments or voluntary days.

#DropTheMic

Yeah, senior red label pilots are paid well. Everyone else is below industry average. You can look forward to that pay in oh, 10-15 years maybe? Wouldn’t you rather be paid well for every stage of your entire career?
 

DirtyBeech

The Last Starfighter
Joined
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Posts
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Yeah, senior red label pilots are paid well. Everyone else is below industry average. You can look forward to that pay in oh, 10-15 years maybe? Wouldn’t you rather be paid well for every stage of your entire career?

No. He wouldn’t. He’d rather step over everyone and let the majority of the group work for the “B”scale.

He’s also taking those bonuses as though they’re fully awarded every time without the possibility of making less.

I’m sure gunfyter could throw in per diem and other things to get his numbers higher too. His wages are contractually guaranteed whereas you have to meet certain metrics to make the RL bonus. And we all know what that entails.

I’d also love to see how the average non RL CA does compared to his NJ’s counterpart.
 
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MOMOMOJO

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Apr 5, 2018
Posts
92
Wow I didn't even know about MG. Considering he was former chair of organizing committe, was on the negotiating team and the chair of the new hire committee I'd say he was pro union. The fact you didn't even know it proves how illiterate you are to the facts of this fight and says it all right there. Thats akin to saying EV might have been a union supporter. You simply don't care about any fact that won't lull your selfish back into the slumber management depends on.

Regarding resignations it seems to me the company is giving you some selective information there Mr. Jump Over Your Back. Who are you they woukd even give out that information? This is not the old Flexjet. I can guarantee you not even RH is in on the big plan let alone little old you. I have personally spoken to say my goodbyes with several. In fairness maybe they'rewaitint for class dates before they alert the company but they are as good as gone.

Regarding the withdrawl card "I'm Back" I agree with you but you're too stupid and stubborn to realize it. It's not a threat - how could the promise of other PPUs to guarantee help securing interviews be considered a threat? The point is they only want to offer the help to guaranteeed union supporters (and a pre January MIGS is not a guaranteed indicator but at least something) but considering it will take months even if they ever come, I think those PPUs who want to help will have to find another way.

You dropped no mic. Remememer Kenn's own words say only the top 20% should be above industry average and the other 80% have to be - HAVE TO BE - below industry average according to his management philosophy. That means your 200 pilot Red Label list is about 90 heavy.

So even if he decided to go with 30% and keep all of you on the dole (unlikely) that means no one else is moving up.

Talk about #fakenews. You're useless as a unifier.
 

CALRepublic

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Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Posts
576
Total Time
plenty
Who wants to work 217 days a year?

well that's the whole point.

I'M BACK claims "drones of owners are leaving NJ for FJ"

i wouldn't say "drones" But several owners have left NJ for FJ. Reason being FJ is about 25-30% cheaper.

your CEO decided to follow the Mesa airlines game plan and be a bottom feeder to capture market share. He needs to get more out of you guys inorder for that to work
 
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