NJA Uniform Change

[gunfyter]

You are right. I mentioned this as I spoke against the 18 day schedule in the pre-IBB vote. Also slower upgrades. But nobody seemed to care.

 

[imacdog]

You are right. I mentioned this as I spoke against the 18 day schedule in the pre-IBB vote. Also slower upgrades. But nobody seemed to care.

At the time there was also no indication that 17% of the pilot group would be furloughed.

 

[gunfyter]

At the time there was also no indication that 17% of the pilot group would be furloughed.

Thats true. I was thinking more about upgrades... and losing the HH days.

 

[Xcorporate]

This is absolutely stupid. All we can do to bring the furloughed folks back is to do our jobs to the best of our ability. Keep our clients happy, and hope for more business.

Sorry, X, but not everything I talk about centers around the furloughed folks. And judging by the talk amongst most of our pilots, they feel the same. That doesn't in any way mean we've forgotten about them, but really, you expect our ONLY topic of conversation ANYTIME we speak to each other about business should be about the furloughed pilots?!

"Hey pilot X! You hear that the furloughed folks are still furloughed?"
"Yes, pilot Y, I did hear that."
"Shame."
"Yeah, it is."
"Are you giving great service so we can grow the company?"
"Yep. You?"
"Yes. Hopefully we'll get em back as quick as possible."
"So, what should we discuss on our 5-hour transcon?"
"We could discuss the shenanigans the company is pulling right now. Or safety issues that currently affect us. Or about our families."
"Yeah. I suppose we could. But there's a guy on FI who says we shouldn't be concerned about anything else until the furloughed folks are back at work."
"Ummmm, okay. Sooooooo, did you hear that the furloughed folks are still furloughed?"
"Yeah, I did. Shame really."
"yeah, it is."
(Repeat the last three exchanges ad nauseum for the next five hours of flying.)

No, you're absolutely right X, we shouldn't talk about ANYTHING else until those folks are back. (idiot!)

PS- Just FYI, we (the union) have been pointing out to the company for many years how to run things more efficiently. I repeat, MANY YEARS! It was only in RTS's last year or so with us that they listened to anything we had to say. And this new management team? Forget about it! They don't care to hear from us about ANYTHING. So I'd really love to hear what it is you think we should do about it. Your assumption is plain wrong that just because we can discuss other developments in our professional lives means we haven't pursued as many options as possible for our furloughed folks, or that they've vanished form our collective memories. In fact, they're talked about almost every day on our own union board. I'm not sure why we can't discuss other things here or elsewhere.

This is the most I've heard from the union in the past 6 months. Really....

 

[av8trinabarrel]

This is the most I've heard from the union in the past 6 months. Really....

That huge long diatribe speaks volumes about our "brotherhood" errrr....union. I've moved on and I hope to god, the vast majority of my fellow 495 have as well. Your union has long forgotten us and I in turn have forgotten them as well.

No hard feelings, just business......riiiiiiightt

 

[DAS at 10/250]

This is the most I've heard from the union in the past 6 months. Really....

That's funny. And sadly, true.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

That huge long diatribe speaks volumes about our "brotherhood" errrr....union. I've moved on and I hope to god, the vast majority of my fellow 495 have as well. Your union has long forgotten us and I in turn have forgotten them as well.

No hard feelings, just business......riiiiiiightt

Nobody cares what you think.












Hope all is well!

 

[hyflyin]

That huge long diatribe speaks volumes about our "brotherhood" errrr....union. I've moved on and I hope to god, the vast majority of my fellow 495 have as well. Your union has long forgotten us and I in turn have forgotten them as well.

No hard feelings, just business......riiiiiiightt

Glad your doing well..... even though you won't return my call. :beer:

 

[hyflyin]

That's funny. And sadly, true.

Did you ever get your spiffy model from Marquis???

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Did you ever get your spiffy model from Marquis???

Yup. I had it on the mantle but like everything else of mine in "our" house it has seen been moved into a more remote and less seen location.

 

[OPECJet]

Yup. I had it on the mantle but like everything else of mine in "our" house it has seen been moved into a more remote and less seen location.

Are we married to the same woman? If so, come get her.....

 

[fischman]

That huge long diatribe speaks volumes about our "brotherhood" errrr....union. I've moved on and I hope to god, the vast majority of my fellow 495 have as well. Your union has long forgotten us and I in turn have forgotten them as well.

No hard feelings, just business......riiiiiiightt

I don't understand where you're coming from here, and I have to take offense to the "out of sight, out of mind" argument. My daughter's Godfather is on the list. You are not "out of mind".

NJASAP's #1 priority since the furlough has been recalls. There are several threads on the NJASAP message board about helping out the 495. You have access to the Compass, the 411, and the Beacon. You have the email addresses of ALL of the eboard members. There was little interest in an outreach program similar to the P2P program.

It appears to me that NJASAP is trying, and many of the 495 are the ones who are uninterested in communications.

Am I wrong?

 

[realityman]

Don't waste your breath, Fisch. The only thing that will make the loud ones on here happy will be to get their jobs back. Can't say that I blame them for that sentiment one bit.

However, what seems to escape them is that it is beyond the union's power to exercise any control over when the company decides to begin recalls. The union didn't furlough them. And the union can't bring them back. That's a very hard reality for these folks, and I wish it weren't so. But it IS the reality.

But as is human nature, those who have gotten the short end of the stick will always look for a scapegoat. In this case, it's the union. Why? Probably because we ARE listening. Although it's the company that has visited these hardships upon them, they have no effective means to have their venting heard by anyone from management. But union members are on this board, and even on the boards the union set up for them, so the union, being the only ones they know are listening, will continue to hear: "The union isn't doing enough for us." "The union isn't communicating enough with us." "the union members don't care about us." "We've been forgotten by the union." And of course (as it pertains to this thread) "If the union REALLY cared about us, they wouldn't discuss anything else, EVER, until we're back on property."

No amount of logical discussion will change the attitudes of a few that the union has caused all their problems and is doing nothing to help. But hey, at least B19 has some new friends!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Reality Check!

I'm ready for some furloughees to get real and realize that the company employs them, not NJASAP.

The Company runs (god or bad) the company with Operational Control. The Union insures that the afore mentioned is done IAW the CBA. Period.

The company will recall when the company recalls, the Union has LITTLE (if no) effect in making that happen.

When the decision is made to recall, the Union will ensure that it is done properly.


Now, I want all furloughees to come back... but I am not management and I can't make that happen. I also will not support recalls for concessions.

 

[gutshotdraw]

+1 Fisch, Reality, and Flylow. Nuff said.

 

[hyflyin]

+1 Fisch, Reality, and Flylow. Nuff said.

From one of the 495, a +1.

 

[Semore Butts]

Cmon 495ers...

The FO's still on property are 100% top knotch take no prisoners.

I know a majority of you are as well.

To Hyflyin and the rest like him.

You are missed. Not a tour goes by that you are not subject #1 in discussion.

Take care, Semore

 

[Xcorporate]

I don't understand where you're coming from here, and I have to take offense to the "out of sight, out of mind" argument. My daughter's Godfather is on the list. You are not "out of mind".

NJASAP's #1 priority since the furlough has been recalls. There are several threads on the NJASAP message board about helping out the 495. You have access to the Compass, the 411, and the Beacon. You have the email addresses of ALL of the eboard members. There was little interest in an outreach program similar to the P2P program.

It appears to me that NJASAP is trying, and many of the 495 are the ones who are uninterested in communications.

Am I wrong?

Yes you are.
411 is a joke and changes direction if not week to week then sentence to sentence. The Compass??? Ok
The Beacon, oh yes the "quarterly" news letter we've all only seen once, back in March was it??

I will agree that when contacting individuals you do get communication. Gotta give you that one.

It seems we are challenged to be unhappy with any aspect of the furlough, we rise to the challenge and then we are called whiners. That is the frustrating part of our "communication". Am I wrong?

 

[Xcorporate]

I'm ready for some furloughees to get real and realize that the company employs them, not NJASAP.

The Company runs (god or bad) the company with Operational Control. The Union insures that the afore mentioned is done IAW the CBA. Period.

The company will recall when the company recalls, the Union has LITTLE (if no) effect in making that happen.

When the decision is made to recall, the Union will ensure that it is done properly.


Now, I want all furloughees to come back... but I am not management and I can't make that happen. I also will not support recalls for concessions.

Well said...

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Don't waste your breath, Fisch. The only thing that will make the loud ones on here happy will be to get their jobs back. Can't say that I blame them for that sentiment one bit.

However, what seems to escape them is that it is beyond the union's power to exercise any control over when the company decides to begin recalls. The union didn't furlough them. And the union can't bring them back. That's a very hard reality for these folks, and I wish it weren't so. But it IS the reality.

But as is human nature, those who have gotten the short end of the stick will always look for a scapegoat. In this case, it's the union. Why? Probably because we ARE listening. Although it's the company that has visited these hardships upon them, they have no effective means to have their venting heard by anyone from management. But union members are on this board, and even on the boards the union set up for them, so the union, being the only ones they know are listening, will continue to hear: "The union isn't doing enough for us." "The union isn't communicating enough with us." "the union members don't care about us." "We've been forgotten by the union." And of course (as it pertains to this thread) "If the union REALLY cared about us, they wouldn't discuss anything else, EVER, until we're back on property."

No amount of logical discussion will change the attitudes of a few that the union has caused all their problems and is doing nothing to help. But hey, at least B19 has some new friends!

Realityman, as a furloughed crew member I can tell you that I don't blame the union for the reduction in force. I'm not sure that anyone does. I, and probably "we", realize that an increase in owners and flying is what will necessitate the recall of pilots.

Here is what you are missing though. We no longer receive CorComs. We are not in the cockpits. We are not out on the line. We are not in the crew rooms, nor are we at the managers receptions, nor are we even allowed on our own message board. The daily information that you receive from the company, the talk on the union website, and the scuttlebutt on the line does not make it to us. Picture that for a moment. Consider all of the information that you receive and then silence it.


Crickets.....



That is all that we hear.

The union is failing, as a whole, on communicating with the excommunicated. There are a few on the official and unofficial boards who are spending a great amount of time trying to disseminate information and sometimes take a beating for it. Their efforts to inform the "forgotten" are much appreciated (even from that Halloween orange guy) even though they sometimes take the beatings since they are the only ones talking. I quote/unquoted forgotten as I am sure that we are not. However, when you don't hear ANYTHING, what else are some to infer?

You are dealing with 482 (at my last count) guys and gals who are accustomed to receiving and processing information. That flow of information needs to begin again. Even if the information is just "sorry, but CMH didn't tell us jack this week. Flying seems to be up and Rudy's still sucks."

I don't blame the union or even the company for my being laid off. I do however place squarely on the union's shoulders the near complete lack of communication coming out of Gahanna addressing the furloughed. The 411 is good, and I personally feel better with guys like Mark, Dan, and Eric at the helm, but the 411 doesn't address the issues a lot of furloughed guys/gals are looking to address and lately just seems to be part of a back and forth media battle with the company.

And while the active members are addressing crew food issues, last day travel, rest, MX, new jackets, etc (and I do support defending the CBA at all times and on all issues) remember that there are a lot of us trying to figure out how to keep from losing our homes, how to stock the refrigerator, and just basically trying to figure out what the hell to do next.

Just letting us know WTF is going on will go a long ways.