NJA to NJI

[Starman]

Fortunately, the decision isn't up to 757BBJ or the NJI guys. The law very clearly is on the union's side. Look for Netjets to negotiate the single-carrier status as part of this contract because otherwise they lose in court. They know this and are realists. They'll trade the NJI guys for something they want in the deal. Count on it.

757BBJ - As to your rather long-winded diatribe on our union, you might want to get some recent facts. The vast majority of the problems caused in our union were driven by the Teamsters 284 cronyism and the lack of leadership in the MEC. Both of those situations have been resolved.

757BBJ is just another in the long line of naysayers whining about our union. It amazes me that people not even involved in our situation are so much more expert about it than us. I just wonder if he's going to be man enough to get on here and admit he was wrong in a few months. My guess would be no.

 

[G4dude]

Keep dreaming. Never going to happen. The only thing the union has done for NJA is made your lives miserable. The union has done nothing for NJA pilots, NOTHING! Let's look at the facts; NJA is the largest, only one with a union, and they are the least paid by a considerable margin!!! The NJI pilots will never let a merger take place, and rightfully so. NJA is such a mess, the pay is junk, there is no orginization within its ranks, and there are too many internal issues that the NJA pilots have to deal with to make a merger worthwhile. Why would the NJI guys go and mess up a good thing? I am sure they laugh at the NJA pilots frequently. Had NJA not gone union, they would be in a much better position than they are today. I say that because there is no place to go from where they are now except for up. NJI pilots are well paid (in comparison to their counter-parts), happy for the most part, and they do not have some half wit union working on their behalf. Can the same be said for NJA pilots? The BBJ guys took good care of themselves and left the rest of the pilots to essentially fend for themselves. THanks Brother!

Wow! Exactly right! We at NJI cannot understand why union pilots who have been at the bottom of the food chain for years as a result of being union feel the union is their way to decent pay and working conditions. Sounds like the hair of the dog to me.

 

[G4dude]

Just wondering if it is possible to move from NJA to the Gulfstreams at NJI. I know they require time in the Gulfstream, so are all their pilots hired from the 'outside'?

The good news is that NJI does not require Gulfstream time. It has been possible in the past to move from NJA to NJI, but it appears to be difficult. Nji is definitely the place to be. Non union, happy, and contented. Best thing to ever happen to me was being hired here. Period.

 

[G4dude]

Thats not going to happen. If anything happens they will stay right in the Gulfstreams with a fence and it will make not any difference to them at all. everything will be just like before...

Gunfyter, I hope you are right. How did you arrive at your conclusion? And if you are correct, why is common carrier status so important to the union? To the pilots? I can't figure it out.

 

[757BBJ_Capt]

I know it stings a little to hear the truth. Don't kid yourself.

Is NJA the largest frac operator? YES
Does NJA create more revenue than any other FRAC? YES
Do the NJA pilots see less of that revenue percentage wise than any other FRAC Pilot group? YES
Is NJA the lowest paid? YES
Are you the only FRAC with a Union? YES
Is the Union new to NJA? NO, been thare an awfully long time
Has Union representation has any positive benefit on the pilot group? NO
Do the NJA pilots sound like broken records when they say, "Well, when we get this new contract........."? YES

You say the law is on your side? Not exactly. You been to too many of the "meetings". Lawyers will take care of any attempt to merge the lists. Remember, the NJI guys actually have enough money left over at the end of the month to hire good lawyers. Granted, the problems that plagued NJA pilots in the past with the union reps might be over, but look what it did. You all look unorganized, you are unorganized, and in letting the nastiness get to the point in which it did, you lost a great deal of bargining power based on that alone. You think the vast majority of pilots at NJA are going to trust the union now with their future? No. A strike will NEVER happen over there. If you don't think Warren Buffett has the power and financial resources to fire all of you and start all over, WRONG!!! I don't think it would ever get that far, but I can assure you that he is not hreatened in the least bit by some 30k/year pilot barking idle threats. YOU CANT AFFORD TO STRIKE!!!! Do yourself a favor; dump the union and work hard to get what is a long time coming through means that will actually produce results.

If I am wrong and it all gets merged, you bet I will get on here and eat crow. Only problem is, I will never have a need to. Will you get on here and keep singing your tune after the judge slams the door in your face?

Fortunately, the decision isn't up to 757BBJ or the NJI guys. The law very clearly is on the union's side. Look for Netjets to negotiate the single-carrier status as part of this contract because otherwise they lose in court. They know this and are realists. They'll trade the NJI guys for something they want in the deal. Count on it.

757BBJ - As to your rather long-winded diatribe on our union, you might want to get some recent facts. The vast majority of the problems caused in our union were driven by the Teamsters 284 cronyism and the lack of leadership in the MEC. Both of those situations have been resolved.

757BBJ is just another in the long line of naysayers whining about our union. It amazes me that people not even involved in our situation are so much more expert about it than us. I just wonder if he's going to be man enough to get on here and admit he was wrong in a few months. My guess would be no.

 

[miles otoole]

I know it stings a little to hear the truth. Don't kid yourself.

Is NJA the largest frac operator? YES
Does NJA create more revenue than any other FRAC? YES
Do the NJA pilots see less of that revenue percentage wise than any other FRAC Pilot group? YES
Is NJA the lowest paid? YES
Are you the only FRAC with a Union? YES
Is the Union new to NJA? NO, been thare an awfully long time
Has Union representation has any positive benefit on the pilot group? NO
Do the NJA pilots sound like broken records when they say, "Well, when we get this new contract........."? YES

You forgot THE most important question that matters to Santulli- Does NJA create more PROFIT than any other frac operator? Nothing else matters. This alone wil be the death knell of NJAs fight. Sorry.

 

[757BBJ_Capt]

Mr. Otoole is right. Net Jets creates NO profit. Split the units up, and NJA and NJI both are profitable. The overseas divisions (Europe and the Middle East) are not profitable, and their losses each year are greater than any profit that NJA and NJI makes. Because Netjets is publically traded (it's a division of Berkshire Hathaway), their books are reported as 1 company, which shows a loss. That's too bad, because if their #s were not being dragged down by the overseas units, they might have a chance for a decent raise. At this point, mgnt will just tell them they are not working hard enough to get a raise, because if they were, they'd be profitable. It's a Sh!tty deal, I know, but it's the only one they got!

You forgot THE most important question that matters to Santulli- Does NJA create more PROFIT than any other frac operator? Nothing else matters. This alone wil be the death knell of NJAs fight. Sorry.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

My colleague wrote:



“Nji is definitely the place to be. Non union, happy, and contented. Best thing to ever happen to me was being hired here. Period.”



I can certainly take the same position here. I've never been happier flying an airplane. NJI pilots are the best in this business and I’m extremely proud to be associated with my company. That said, I certainly hope nothing but the best for the NJA pilots, but I don’t have a direct interest in the bargaining agenda there. And any attempt to use my position or company as a bargaining chip to further gains at NJA will prove futile in my opinion.

 

[CatYaaak]

When a business model's success depends substantially on low-wages, and thousands of pilots vote "Yes" to those wages by accepting jobs working within that model, no union will later be able to significantly change the force or fact of this low-wage dependency.

Once upon a time NetJets was considered a PFT suck-it-up-financially, jet time-building stepping stone to a lucrative job at the majors when they were hiring in record numbers. That the frac-to-major route has suddenly shut down doesn't change anything about the frac business model, only the expectations and realization of harsh realities of those working within it, and the labor market is flooded.

The moral of the story should be obvious; don't take a job that sucks, know the business you work in and don't pretend it's something it's not, and don't believe the promises of those lacking foresight who did, even if there's a lot of 'em.

 

[flyfish]

And,

Once upon a time Fedex was considered a low paying, fly by night, DA-20 flying, time building job as well. I know a pilot that was there. He is now reaping the rewards of his foresight and the ever increasing capacity of the business model.