NJA to NJI

[TCA]

7 & 7

7 & 7 was and is available to a limited number of crews. I think that it is less than 50 %. Thats my perception and please do not quote the number.

If you look at the salary in a vacumm, it is well below the standard. (not sure who's standard)

There are more important things than the money. If you will search my previous posts; you my uncover some the more important reasons that crews come to work at NJI.

Once again don't quote the numbers, but nearly 50% of the NJI pilots are previous Gulfstream folks. Those numbers have been decreasing over the past 4 years.

"Still Climbing"
TCA

 

[Live4flyng]

There are more important things than the money.

OH really? Like what? Flying famous people? Or maybe it's the crew meals. Possibly the less than 50% 7&7 lines you "think" are a available to most crews? You forgot to mention the fly from home. Please don't bring up the seat grab argument either, NJA was around long before NJI was formed to spit in the their faces! Old*art is right, NJI was started in spite of NJA and not for the old "experience" theory since "nearly 50% of the NJI pilots are previous Gulfstream folks." It's a good old boy system at NJI, all about who you know.

Should NETEJTS should form a new company when a new type of airplane is delivered? The CE680 was just delivered not long ago, not much experience in that plane.

 

[old*art]

"There are more important things than the money."

TCA you are correct. I came to NJA because I did not know anyone at NJI and - quite frankly - have had my fill of 6-8 hour legs and international flying. The reasons for coming to NJA were simple - well funded with Buffett, I gained senority extremely fast, flying new airlplanes, and this is the type flying I truly enjoy. I waited for them to open my hometown so fly from home has never been an issue for me other than wanting the same for the other pilots. I was betting on the pay getting better and with the group we have driving the boat now I am reservedly confident that will happen. With 91k having solved the duty/rest issues, pay is about all that is left where I am dissatisfied. By the way - I did not see anything in your post that contradicted anything in my earlier one.

 

[GVFlyer]

Please don't bring up the seat grab argument either, NJA was around long before NJI was formed to spit in the their faces! Old*art is right, NJI was started in spite of NJA and not for the old "experience" theory since "nearly 50% of the NJI pilots are previous Gulfstream folks." It's a good old boy system at NJI, all about who you know.

I have to get involved here, just to keep the facts straight.

The time is January 1995. NJA (EJA at that time) was known for it's low pay and history of hiring turbo-prop regional pilots into jets (at least that was our conception at Gulfstream). These pilots were willing to accept the work rules, duty periods, gateways and poor compensation their union had negotiated for them in return for jet time. They were flying mostly Citation IIs.

Richard Santulli approached Teddy Forstman, the then current owner of Gulfstream saying he would like to start an international operations company using Gulfstreams. Forstman handed the deal to Bill Boisture, then President of Gulfstream, to make happen.

The initial contract between Gulfstream and NetJets was a Bill Boisture - Richard Santulli deal. Forstman and Santulli are too much alike to work together easily. Gulfstream provided the first three "core" aircraft because Santulli and Executive Jet were unable to capitilize them at that time (Richard had not yet sold his company to Warren Buffet so there was not a lot of cash on hand). In order for Gulfstream to provide these aircraft and be part of the deal, it was agreed that only well experienced Gulfstream pilots would be hired for the new venture because safety was to be a key marketing point and NJI buyers would be guaranteed highly qualified, internationally experienced Gulfstream pilots. Gulfstream did not want unqualified or marginally qualified pilots flying their aircraft and their $100 million investment in NJI postioned them to demand this requirement.

It was originally determined that only pilots with a minimum of 2,500 hours in Gulfstreams would be hired. To draw the kind of pilots desired, starting and subsequent salaries were set to be industry standard (and still are).

Compensation for current hire NJI pilots is 50% percentile NBAA. The Captains who have been there for 10 years do considerably better.

As NJI has matured their hiring policies have changed. The initial cadre were all Gulfstream captains. Now, they hire First Officers and while prior Gulfstream experience is still a written requirement these pilots are hard to find. Gulfstream Flight Ops has experienced the same problem finding qualified Gulfstream pilots. At Gulfstream, the first of three hiring category priorities is for "Experienced Gulfstream Pilots", but recenty some non-Gulfstream qualified category two "Experienced Transport Pilots" have been hired.

The first EJI office was in the Gulfstream Customer lounge. Rick Schwartz, Ray Roberts and Peter Hanchak interviewed pilots while Joe Murphy, the present NJI President, shuttled between Savannah and Montvale hammering out compensation, homebasing, organization, workrules and duty periods.

Presently, maintenance, joint marketing and sales relationships exist between Gulfstream and NJI. Gulfstream sells Shares to existing Gulfstream customers and large cabin aircraft owners. NJI sells Gulfstream Shares to mid and small cabin aircraft owners as well as "Concept Buyers."

NJI is an autonomous company with their own President, executive staff, maintenance and dispatch/scheduling operations chartered in South Carolina, a "Right to Work" state. It will be interesting to see how the International Brotherhood of Teamster's single carrier suit plays out.

We had a couple of 1/8th shares and under NJI's rules the owning companies' pilots can fly in command on NJI aircraft as long as they meet NJI qualification and experience requirements as well as passing written, oral and flight checks. As such, I flew as an NJI Captain on our share aircraft for over a year and know many of the line pilots (some of whom I flew with at Andrews AFB) very well. I also know the Okatie leadership group from Gulfstream's efforts in initially establishing the EJI program as well as from working special joint projects with them. I think I have a pretty balanced view of NJI and it is my observation that NJI pilots are a very happy pilot group with the company that they built - just as it is.

Should NETEJTS should form a new company when a new type of airplane is delivered? The CE680 was just delivered not long ago, not much experience in that plane.

It's not quite the same thing - there's plenty of Cessna experience at NJA. Besides - Cessna doesn't care who flys their aircraft.

GV






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[old*art]

I know for a FACT a single seat fighter jock with no transport or pax experience was hired about four years ago. I have no problem with "who you know" - its what makes the world go 'round.

 

[Diesel]

Now if you want to hear the other side of the story ask a NJA guy what happened.

Sorry it's not as clear as that and gulfstream and RTS don't come out smelling like roses.

Also ever notice that Gulfstream is non union. No union pilots will fly gulfstream aircraft or the deal didn't go through.

RTS used the Gulfstreams as a carrot to the pilots or they got the stick.

i'll pm bizjet737 who was actually involved when the crap went down.

GVflyer would like to have you think it's all simple and easy but it isn't.

 

[Live4flyng]

Thanks for your history lesson GV.

Richard Santulli approached Teddy Forstman, the then current owner of Gulfstream saying he would like to start an international operations company using Gulfstreams. Forstman handed the deal to Bill Boisture, then President of Gulfstream, to make happen.

RTS approched the union at EJA and was unwilling to negotiate the terms for operating these new airplanes, resulting in the formation of EJI.

It was originally determined that only pilots with a minimum of 2,500 hours in Gulfstreams would be hired.

Why would there be more qualified Gulfstream pilots in 1995 than there are today? You even said yourself that qualified pilots are hard to find today. As far as the Cessna comment about not caring who flies their airplanes, the same thing can be said for Gulfstream. We both know it's all about money, anyone with cash can buy an airplane and hire anyone they want to fly it.

NJI is an autonomous company with their own President, executive staff, maintenance and dispatch/scheduling operations chartered in South Carolina, a "Right to Work" state. It will be interesting to see how the International Brotherhood of Teamster's single carrier suit plays out.

Nice try, but we know better. NJI was dispatched out of CMH less than a year ago. Netjets may have seen the writing on the wall with the single carrier suit and decided to move the operation out of CMH to try and prove it is a separate company. There are hundreds of supply lockers and store rooms around the country that NJI and NJA have access to. We carry the same pagers and blackberries, stay at the same (union rate negotiated hotels), receive the same discounted contract fuel rates at FBOs and fly the exact same owners. Not very autonomous sounding to me.

It's not quite the same thing - there's plenty of Cessna experience at NJA. Besides - Cessna doesn't care who flys their aircraft.

Oh it is quite the same thing. NJA operates the Gulfstream 200 and soon the G-150, I'm surprised they allowed that. Maybe Gulfstream doesn't really care who flies their aircraft afterall.

 

[Diesel]

Oh it is quite the same thing. NJA operates the Gulfstream 200 and soon the G-150, I'm surprised they allowed that. Maybe Gulfstream doesn't really care who flies their aircraft afterall.

It's because our scope clause with the company. NJI may only operate G4 or a derivative thereof. GV is one of those.

They can't operate a G200 or G150 because of the clause.

 

[GVFlyer]

Now if you want to hear the other side of the story ask a NJA guy what happened.

Sorry it's not as clear as that and gulfstream and RTS don't come out smelling like roses.

Also ever notice that Gulfstream is non union. No union pilots will fly gulfstream aircraft or the deal didn't go through.

RTS used the Gulfstreams as a carrot to the pilots or they got the stick.

i'll pm bizjet737 who was actually involved when the crap went down.

GVflyer would like to have you think it's all simple and easy but it isn't.

It is pretty simple, Diesel; everything I stated is a verifiable fact as opposed to the opinions that are rampant here.

Gulfstream employees are definitely non-union. The pilots are considered management and qualify for executive compensation. The "good-ole-boys" that do the touch labor on the factory floor "don't much cotten" to unions and run union organizers off every time they try to get a union on the premises. It is for the quality of labor of this work force that Gulfstream moved from Bethpage, NJ to Savannah.

Although I value Bizjet737's opinion, it is just that - a worker bee's perspective who would not have had access to the inner workings at Montvale just as you don't have access to the machinations at Woodbridge.

GV





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[bizjet737]

it's very simple. gulfstream didn't want union pilots flying it's planes. nothing more, nothing less. we'll see what comes around with the single-carrier lawsuit.