NJA TA-lies or does the truth just change?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Operational control you say?


91K flights: the share owner and NJA are jointly responsible.

What does this mean from a liability view point....

 

[Guitar Guy]

What does this mean from a liability view point....

I'm not a lawyer, so you'll have to seek out an attorney about the liability issue. I do know that earlier this year, owners had to make a decision regarding operating under Part 91K or Part 135 and some chose Part 135, based off of legal advice from their own counsel. But when the flight is operating under FAR Part 91K, we add a brief to the passengers that includes something along the lines of "...this flight is under the operational control of (insert shareholder's name) but will be flown NetJets Aviation, Inc..."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm not a lawyer, so you'll have to seek out an attorney about the liability issue. I do know that earlier this year, owners had to make a decision regarding operating under Part 91K or Part 135 and some chose Part 135, based off of legal advice from their own counsel. But when the flight is operating under FAR Part 91K, we add a brief to the passengers that includes something along the lines of "...this flight is under the operational control of (insert shareholder's name) but will be flown NetJets Aviation, Inc..."

Well, and that is my point from the original post. Sure you'll provide excellent customer service to your owners...

But when it comes to paychecks, work rules, CVR/FDR protection etc, it begins and ends with NetJets managements, BB and Santuli.....

 

[Guitar Guy]

Well, and that is my point from the original post. Sure you'll provide excellent customer service to your owners...

But when it comes to paychecks, work rules, CVR/FDR protection etc, it begins and ends with NetJets managements, BB and Santuli.....

"Work rules, paychecks and CVR/FDR protection" are all part of the proposed TA. In the end, however, it's not just NetJets management, BB and RTS who define those items, but also the union membership who vote to ratify or reject the TA.

Your original post had 2 items at the end: "Who has operational control. Who writes your paycheck?" You say my post makes your point - what was your point? NetJets does not always have complete operational control of a flight if that flight is under 91K. As for paychecks, I'm not certain what your point is.

Please elaborate.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

"Work rules, paychecks and CVR/FDR protection" are all part of the proposed TA. In the end, however, it's not just NetJets management, BB and RTS who define those items, but also the union membership who vote to ratify or reject the TA.

Your original post had 2 items at the end: "Who has operational control. Who writes your paycheck?" You say my post makes your point - what was your point? NetJets does not always have complete operational control of a flight if that flight is under 91K. As for paychecks, I'm not certain what your point is.

Please elaborate.

I was refering to the first post in this thread. The author was advocating taking energy away from union/management focusing on the owners. The owners do not have operational control. They tell the pilot where to fly the jet via Netjets management. NJA pilots don't bargain thier TA with the owners.

The only energy that should be focused on the owners is excellent customer service. Which you do.

I fear this thread is going to "split hairs" mode.....

 

[Guitar Guy]

I was refering to the first post in this thread. The author was advocating taking energy away from union/management focusing on the owners. The owners do not have operational control. They tell the pilot where to fly the jet via Netjets management. NJA pilots don't bargain thier TA with the owners.

The only energy that should be focused on the owners is excellent customer service. Which you do.

I fear this thread is going to "split hairs" mode.....

While it has been pointed out that the owners can sometimes be the ones in operational control, I agree with the "split hairs" comment.

Personally, I never witnessed any situation where any negative energy was focused on an owner by a crewmember. It will be interesting to see what the reaction, mood and customer service are like after the TA is ratified, assuming that it is.

Our DO spoke to our recurrent class the day after the news came out about the company backing away on part of the agreement on scope/NJI. He was very focused on getting pilots involved in joint company/pilot operational improvement groups in post-TA era. It was interesting to hear our DO so emphatic that a solution would be found to scope/NJI logjam and that the TA was going to pass. Of course, he has a very vested interest in getting relations between the company and pilots smoothed out.

 

[Hogprint]

The focus should not be on what the pilots can do. We have been giving great service through this whole process.

The focus needs to be on what Owner Service can do to make things better. The CYA that is endemic of OS is where the complaints from owners are generated. Look at the surveys. Pilots over the four year period have never dropped below 97-98%. OS was significantly lower in owner confidence.

When we (the company as a whole) are ready to address this, then and only then will we really turn the corner on owner relations.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Hog,

You are correct. OS will tell an owner just about anything to get them off the phone. (Like 11 people with golf bags, personal bags, 2 meals, etc. etc. will fit in the back of plane just fine).

Im waiting for an external stores pylons to be added to the wings in the near future.

 

[Guitar Guy]

If the pilot/management cooperation teams come to fruition, maybe OS will improve. I have also heard from owners that they enjoy the pilots and hate the lies from OS. Hopefully OS can realize that a polite reasonable "no, you can't carry semi-tractor trailer full of skiing equipment in an Ultra" is actually better than lying to the owners only to have them discover the truth at the FBO.