NJA TA in principal reached!!!

[gunfyter]

"Doubled the economy in Arkansas? Let me tell you something. When all you have is a penny all it takes is another penny to double your economy. " -- Ross Perot 1992

If you look at year one and the early years of SIC scale. It is only low to mid 50's percent of PIC pay. At year 10 it reaches about 68%. So yes the junior SICs are not getting the standard 68%. This makes their annual raises look larger as they catch up to 68%.

I find this objectionable and I'm unsure why it was done. Perhaps to trick people into feeling their situation is improving every year. Yes but from a substandard position.

 

[imacdog]

But isn't that your daily comparison ? That regardless of status the pay sucks ? A raise was given , and at a almost 20% home . Most people would LOVE that kind of raise , AND you got a signing bonus . If a revolving door is created with th FO's , then that will induce a market controlled need to offer yet another raise to create an incentive to stay . The market place is an awesome tool when used correctly . If the current pay won't keep pilots at Net Jets , they'll have no choice but to offer the incentive . Still can't see why there is still complaining ..... True some of the hotels aren't the BEST , but they're far from the worst . That's gonna change too . And by the way , we stayed at some pretty great hotels , had almost free reign on food , before someone messed it up by going overboard on dinner and drinks ... And then ....

Do you work at NJA?

 

[imacdog]

"Doubled the economy in Arkansas? Let me tell you something. When all you have is a penny all it takes is another penny to double your economy. " -- Ross Perot 1992

If you look at year one and the early years of SIC scale. It is only low to mid 50's percent of PIC pay. At year 10 it reaches about 68%. So yes the junior SICs are not getting the standard 68%. This makes their annual raises look larger as they catch up to 68%.

I find this objectionable and I'm unsure why it was done. Perhaps to trick people into feeling their situation is improving every year. Yes but from a substandard position.

It sure tricked ExecJetCA.

 

[ExecJetCA]

imacdog, some of us weren't gifted as you. It's obvious that your regional RJ wisdom would have saved the day. I have no idea why they didn't appoint you to the NC, in fact why aren't you in management? I am purely humbled being in your electronic presences.

 

[imacdog]

Sorry about your percentages exercise. I'm sure you felt you were really onto something there.

 

[acaTerry]

Grammar is not my strong suit, sorry.

The peril of a degree in English is that it is useful for nothing but catching mistakes :laugh:

 

[gunfyter]

Initially I thought this would fail.

Having attended the latest Union meeting, adamant No voters were turned to yes or significantly softened their opposition.

I think the over/under is now about 65% in favor.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Initially I thought this would fail.

Having attended the latest Union meeting, adamant No voters were turned to yes or significantly softened their opposition.

I think the over/under is now about 65% in favor.

My original prediction was 53-55% yes. I'm now thinking 60%.

STILL waiting to read the full text but I doubt I will read anything to move me off the NO vote. Just the opposite, in fact.

 

[rajflyboy]

same job with a bit more money

Same people getting special deals are the same people who will get special deals moving forward with this TA

just vote YES and everything will be peachy

 

[FLYLOW22]

80 is my guess

 

[BentOver]

Wait, what happened to 10/250 as the absolute minimum?

 

[gunfyter]

Wait, what happened to 10/250 as the absolute minimum?

14/250 if you work an average of 19 days per month and include 10% overtime and an average share of holiday pay. 228 work days per year.

11/150 for sic under same schedule.

 

[BentOver]

14/250 if you work an average of 19 days per month and include 10% overtime and an average share of holiday pay. 228 work days per year.

11/150 for sic under same schedule.

Is that for all fleets or larger cabin... Is the 18 day being upped to 19?

11 years to make $150 doing 19 days+ holidays as an SIC..... NJA will have the same problem they did '05-'07. SIC's leaving for airlines... Only thing that may deter a mass exodus is the number of airline spots available due to all the flow contracts with the regionals.

I can see Captains maybe voting yes if they can clear $200k+. But what is the word form SIC's.

 

[gunfyter]

Word is two Phenom captains left yesterday. I think if enough six attrition occurs they will come begging with an IBB to up the pay

I don't see the six/pic pay ratio as much of the problem as the lack of any idea if there will be any upgrades in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[imacdog]

10 yr SIC 7/7 doesn't even break 100k.

 

[gutshotdraw]

80 is my guess

I'll take that bet.

North of 65% would shock me. I will take a hammer to my crystal ball and never, ever, make a prediction again if that happens.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Two things come up from the hard-sellers every time somebody says they are a NO voter.

1. There's no more money. It's a pretty good raise. We can't get any more...etc. etc.

2. What will you do if it fails? We'll be screwed. The company will come back at us for more concessions. The skies will boil, chaos will reign, dogs and cats will be living together, MASS HYSTERIA!


Here's my answers.

1. It ISN'T about the salary scale. It's about the quality of life issues. It's pretty close to being a good deal but needs some "tweaking."

All 12 earned days available as PTO or sick days. Cost to the company: ZERO

Eliminate the GLC PIC salary scale disparity. Re-average the same available money into ONE scale (goring my own ox here BTW). Cost to the company: ZERO

The section on union/company assessment of hotels and the minor dispute process is EXPRESSLY extended to include international hotels and NetJets Europe is SPECIFICALLY REMOVED from selecting hotels for NJA crews. Cost to the company: NEGLIGIBLE

The 10 hour POLICY on coach/business class seating is PUT IN WRITING as a CBA REQUIREMENT. We can work on whittling the time down next time. Cost to company: NEGLIGIBLE

No rest period shorter than the preceding duty period, rounded up to the next hour. Cost to the company: Net positive because of fewer fatigue calls

DURATION The biggie. 4 years with a 2 year option. Cost to the company: TBA
I can stomach a poor to average deal for 6-8 years. 8-10? No way.

2. What do we do if it fails? Simple. Pedro and the EBoard ask for a sitdown with AJ and Bill. LUTHI STAYS OUT OF THE ROOM. Pedro says "We WANTED this to pass. We tried to get it passed. We're CLOSE. Tweak just a few of these things, especially duration and I think we can get it done."

You know, an ADULT conversation.

But it's moot. This thing is going to pass, it will suck the same but we'll get paid a bit more, and in two years you won't be able to find a soul who voted yes.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Can it be better QOL? Sure.

How do you write that into a CBA?

Corporate culture change is the only way to go in other ti achieve QOL.

Luthi can waive his magic schlong at AJ and Noe to accomplish that at a negotiating table.

It must happen from the top.

If the top heads down that path, there are seemingly thousands of beneficial effects.

I can think of just north of 2,700 actually.

 

[NachoMamma]

Two things come up from the hard-sellers every time somebody says they are a NO voter.

1. There's no more money. It's a pretty good raise. We can't get any more...etc. etc.

2. What will you do if it fails? We'll be screwed. The company will come back at us for more concessions. The skies will boil, chaos will reign, dogs and cats will be living together, MASS HYSTERIA!


Here's my answers.

1. It ISN'T about the salary scale. It's about the quality of life issues. It's pretty close to being a good deal but needs some "tweaking."

All 12 earned days available as PTO or sick days. Cost to the company: ZERO

Eliminate the GLC PIC salary scale disparity. Re-average the same available money into ONE scale (goring my own ox here BTW). Cost to the company: ZERO

The section on union/company assessment of hotels and the minor dispute process is EXPRESSLY extended to include international hotels and NetJets Europe is SPECIFICALLY REMOVED from selecting hotels for NJA crews. Cost to the company: NEGLIGIBLE

The 10 hour POLICY on coach/business class seating is PUT IN WRITING as a CBA REQUIREMENT. We can work on whittling the time down next time. Cost to company: NEGLIGIBLE

No rest period shorter than the preceding duty period, rounded up to the next hour. Cost to the company: Net positive because of fewer fatigue calls

DURATION The biggie. 4 years with a 2 year option. Cost to the company: TBA
I can stomach a poor to average deal for 6-8 years. 8-10? No way.

2. What do we do if it fails? Simple. Pedro and the EBoard ask for a sitdown with AJ and Bill. LUTHI STAYS OUT OF THE ROOM. Pedro says "We WANTED this to pass. We tried to get it passed. We're CLOSE. Tweak just a few of these things, especially duration and I think we can get it done."

You know, an ADULT conversation.

But it's moot. This thing is going to pass, it will suck the same but we'll get paid a bit more, and in two years you won't be able to find a soul who voted yes.

Totally agree. Great post.

 

[ExecJetCA]

We now have first time Captains again on this current bid. One of you experts claimed it wouldn't happen anytime soon. Anything else you amateur Notredamueas like to predict?