NJA TA in principal reached!!!

[acaTerry]

1-Free benefits
I agree.

2-live wherever we want, no comute
Incorrect. Where we want out of the bases available, but with all the limitations and exclusions, it will affect your ability to make money and control your QOL. Clearly this was a loss and the system we are surrendering is better.

3- hotel, airline, amex points
BFD. I have seen so many knock-off hotels that the points are not there anymore. Airline? I live in PHX, in my 11th year at NJA and it took until just a few months ago to get status. And wow, its AA...gollygeewhollickers its just awesome

4- free crew meals (an airline guy will spend $200- $300 bucks on a 4 day trip)
I'd rather pay out of my pocket and get healthy food, or choice of what I eat. The salt infused 3 day old leftovers packaged in Saran Wrap is not good food. At least order our food from the same places as the owners (like it used to be before Suckall).

5- 4 weeks vacation
Agreed until the new Section 19 where you lose the value of two vacation days per vacation because the schedulers can move additional days into your month and the moved days do not get reduced by vacation days.

there are worst jobs outhere
It is "out there", two words. And this is a loser's argument because if we keep saying that we risk letting ourselves become one of those worse jobs instead of holding ourselves up. "Oh the stove is on fire but the rest of the house is OK, so why fight the fire? I'm not worried about it because there are worse fires out there".

Above in red.

 

[ExecJetCA]

Grammar is not my strong suit, sorry.

 

[Diesel]

I consider it a Cadillac plan when I pay a mere $30 copy whether to my Primarynor a Specialist . When compared to others who pay $45 when on Medicare!

If you don't like your job , Leave it .

If you're in the gulfstream you have a very different job than groundpounder.

 

[Diesel]

Here's what I think . Some of these guys believe they're sky Gods . Some have been in a good job their entire career or maybe 3 or 4 . Aviation is a wicked career at times and having been raked over the coals a few times I know what it's like to be grateful to have a Great job ! NetJets provides a wonderful Insurance package and pays a penalty for OUR Cadillac plan . We pay nothing ! We get 4 vacations a year , one every 3 months . We get benefits such as frequent flier miles , hotel points and AmEx points that we didn't have to spend money for !! Sometimes the hours are long , and if you're tired , say so and its taken care of . A lot of you have had your Type Ratings paid for by WB. My God man , think there's some Greed here ? If you hate your job , leave and give it to someone who would Love it ! Since so many of you think Regionals will pay you better , Adios ..... I for one am thankful , grateful and pleased .This raise is more than ample , the signing bonus , just that a Bonus . And I don't see any of you taking your check and giving it to anyone else .... Why should WB ? Remove his incentive to keep us in a job and he'll shut it down , and where will everyone go ? And if you really think you can walk into another job so easily with as bad as you say this is , you'd be gone already . So grow a set .

It's posts like this that keep people for reaching for more.

Oh it's good enough and he will shut it down if I upset the apple cart.

ZZZZZzZ

 

[brokeflyer]

Above in red.

you should go to delta or fedex then

 

[surveypilot]

8 Year SIC

2015$77,174

2016$88,308

2017$92,765

2018$97,297

2019$102,772

2020$109,669

2021$115,778

2022$122,826

2023$126,511



63.9% Increase not including signing bonus.



First Year SIC

2015$56,875

2016$62,563

2017$65,720

2018$69,037

2019$73,971

2020$80,036

2021$85,758

2022$92,336

2023$99,908



75.6% Increase not including signing bonus.



If you are having difficulty reading the pay charts correctly call the union for an explanation.

You keep plastering this on every thread, but that doesn't make it right. This TA increases first year pay 10%. After a cost of living adjustment on the 2007 TA, that's about a 5% pay cut. Comparing the old year one pay to the new year 8 pay does not show the percentage of raise on this contract. The only way to determine that is to compare year 1 to year 1 and year 8 to year 8. This is first grade math and you are failing. You can rationalize this any way you want, but the company looked at where the biggest percentage of voters were on the pay scales and that is where the raises are. The new hires got thrown under the bus and then backed over again!

 

[ExecJetCA]

Instead of me doing the work don't you ever so kindly please your scales to support your argument.

 

[SkyGlider3]

I like it !

 

[Super_Cub_2414P]

The huge mistake of this TA is it divides the unity of the pilot group. Not good.

 

[imacdog]

Instead of me doing the work don't you ever so kindly please your scales to support your argument.

Compare the scale for the same YOS then get back to me.

 

[ExecJetCA]

imac, I am not doing your work for you. You need to present your case. I think its quite amusing how everyone likes to a crack or shot at it, but won't post anything to dispute it.

 

[surveypilot]

imac, I am not doing your work for you. You need to present your case. I think its quite amusing how everyone likes to a crack or shot at it, but won't post anything to dispute it.

What's to dispute? The first year pay on the 2007 IBB Contract was $56,875. The first year pay on the 2015 TA is $62,563. That is a 10% increase numerically. However, when you factor in cost of living increases during that 8 year period, that is approximately a 5% pay cut.

You might can argue a 10% increase (I disagree because that doesn't factor in cost of living), but you tried to claim that a first year was getting over a 70% increase with this TA. That is a blatant lie. What other numbers would you like me to post?

 

[ExecJetCA]

I think you need to actually speak to someone about who can open up Section 6 and when on this TA. I think that would at least answer some of your questions.

$56,875 on the 7&7 and $62,653 at ratification is correct. Year 8 is $70,781, an increase of 24.4%. If subtract out 10% or even 15% for inflation that still leaves a 14.4%-9.4% increase. The allocation of money went to where about 80% of the current pilot group is at seniority wise.

 

[surveypilot]

I think you need to actually speak to someone about who can open up Section 6 and when on this TA. I think that would at least answer some of your questions.

$56,875 on the 7&7 and $62,653 at ratification is correct. Year 8 is $70,781, an increase of 24.4%. If subtract out 10% or even 15% for inflation that still leaves a 14.4%-9.4% increase. The allocation of money went to where about 80% of the current pilot group is at seniority wise.

I don't have any questions. The company and the union threw the new hires under the bus to get an agreement that would pass. It's not complicated. It is just going to bite the company in the butt since this agreement will create a revolving door in the FO ranks.

 

[993_Pilot]

I think you need to actually speak to someone about who can open up Section 6 and when on this TA. I think that would at least answer some of your questions.

$56,875 on the 7&7 and $62,653 at ratification is correct. Year 8 is $70,781, an increase of 24.4%. If subtract out 10% or even 15% for inflation that still leaves a 14.4%-9.4% increase. The allocation of money went to where about 80% of the current pilot group is at seniority wise.

You have got to be kidding, right? You are trying to compare year one pay in 2007 to year eight pay in 2015 and attempting to sell it as a 24.4% increase? What a bunch of crap. For a comparison to have any meaning, you have to compare the same longevity in both and even more meaningful is the purchasing power of that money. FYI, $56,875 in 2007 is equal to $65,269 in 2015, so Survey Pilot is right, so compared to $62,653 that's about a 4% decrease in purchasing power.

Even if you did try to compare year one in 2007 to year eight in 2015, a more meaningful comparison would be comparing purchasing power based on CPI, so $56,875 should now be $65,269 in 2015 and a bump to $70,781 is only an 8.44% increase in purchasing power. When you consider the time frame again, that is just over 1%/year, so still doesn't keep up with inflation. http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

If this gets ratified, Survey Pilot is also correct that your training department should install a revolving door.

 

[imacdog]

No need to do the work. It's already been posted. Comparing same YOS, the junior pilots got hosed. Everyone knows this despite your realization that as you move up the pay scale, you are getting a bigger raise each year than someone who is at the top of the pay scale.

 

[ExecJetCA]

As everyone points out we are comparing everything on the 7&7, you have the ability to bid other schedules that pay more. If you are admit about staying on schedule and complaining of suffering I can't help. Having many friends that got furloughed, they did what they had to do to make ends meet. It was very rough for them. If you are a new hire and don't like the TA then vote no, everyone has a vote. Is this TA perfect, no. If some how you have more inside information than our NC, then you should have stepped up and set them straight.

 

[surveypilot]

As everyone points out we are comparing everything on the 7&7, you have the ability to bid other schedules that pay more. If you are admit about staying on schedule and complaining of suffering I can't help. Having many friends that got furloughed, they did what they had to do to make ends meet. It was very rough for them. If you are a new hire and don't like the TA then vote no, everyone has a vote. Is this TA perfect, no. If some how you have more inside information than our NC, then you should have stepped up and set them straight.

Oh sure, I can just work more. That worked right up until October when I couldn't hold the 18 day schedule and was forced to the 7/7. I will do what I have to do to make ends meet. I had high hopes that NJ would be a career position. That obviously will not be the case. If I have to get a second job to make ends meet, this is not a career job.

Trust me. I will be exercising my right to vote NO!

 

[ExecJetCA]

What fleet did you get bumped off? Correct me if I am wrong, but with the new scheduling options there is no limit, you can only be displaced from the 7&7 to the 52 day, but getting the higher of the two pays.

 

[SkyGlider3]

But isn't that your daily comparison ? That regardless of status the pay sucks ? A raise was given , and at a almost 20% home . Most people would LOVE that kind of raise , AND you got a signing bonus . If a revolving door is created with th FO's , then that will induce a market controlled need to offer yet another raise to create an incentive to stay . The market place is an awesome tool when used correctly . If the current pay won't keep pilots at Net Jets , they'll have no choice but to offer the incentive . Still can't see why there is still complaining ..... True some of the hotels aren't the BEST , but they're far from the worst . That's gonna change too . And by the way , we stayed at some pretty great hotels , had almost free reign on food , before someone messed it up by going overboard on dinner and drinks ... And then ....