NJA Strong Union Negotiator Summary--Part 1

[Lake Alice]

It sounds like you guys are way far apart. It also seems that being far apart if VERY good for Netjets. Being this far apart means that negotiations are going to stall, or at least take a very long time. Isn't that just what the company would want? You aren't going on strike, so what possible downside is there for Netjets (other than a PR issue).

Negotiations have stalled a bit or atleast it appears so. As for time who knows. The company is losing a considerable amount of money and owners. The owner retention rate is down significantly and the new owners/marquis card holders has slowed as well. The DNIF rate has hit an all time high and we are seriously short crews and especially captains. I recently quit and was asked to please stay on an extra month to help the October/November season.

Its hard to tell what the company wants. NetJets is certainly run by the kind of people with gigantic ego's. NJA would rather spend more money on sell-offs and lose owners than ever pay anything the union asks for. Unless the union agrees to the company's salaries demands the contract will never get settled. Its all about ego.

As for strike, probably not. Its not totaly ruled out but unlikely. For the pilot group it would be a much quicker solution but the work the pilot group is doing with write-ups, DNIF's, etc is creating incredible havoc on an already disorganized scheduling/maintenance department.

Lastly, the PR issue is getting to the company as well. Owners have recently chartered their own aircraft because they believed NJA was on strike. Also, due to the rash of recent chartered A/C crashed many owners refuse to fly on a non QS tail. Its in owners/Marquis contract that sell-offs are part of the deal but many are putting their foot down.

Recently the budget for media campaigns has been significantly increased so you can expect that will make a difference as well. The richies don't want bad press when they are boarding the jet to fly to Aspen. The bad press is causing problems with attracting new pilots. If your best friend cant recommend the job to you.....? Classes have been cancelled.

Lastly, the quality of the product has simply declined. The airplanes are filthy, full or write ups and MEL's and most crews just dont care anymore. Items that would have been fixed in the past are being deferred and the owners are getting pretty upset. Flying cross country without a LAV or DVD/CD player is unacceptable. Paying to an aircraft with an APU and having one show up in 90 degree weather is the norm. It might sound a little silly were not the ones paying an exorbitant amount of money for a plane. And regardless of anyones opinion on salary the pilot group has been waiting 4 years that will lower anyones moral which affect performance.

All in all it is a very difficult place to work right now.

 

[abenaki]

Lake Alice--

A well-written and succinct summary of how it is.....nice job........

As an added note, as long as the FUD campaign continues, the natural result will be more DNIF and fatigue calls.....intentionally inducing negative emotions has the unintended consequence of increasing the DNIF calls.....they can't have it both ways......

 

[You're right]

....... but the work the pilot group is doing with write-ups, DNIF's, etc is creating incredible havoc ..........

Lastly, the quality of the product has simply declined.

Wanted to make certain everyone understood the "legal" work slowdown was having no impact on OUR owners.

 

[Lake Alice]

I wouldn't call it a slow down at all, in fact its not. Pilots are simply using their sick time more often. When guys/gals would go out for 5 days, get 2 days off and go out for 6 they are calling in sick. Who wouldnt.

Indirectly the DNIF rates affect the owners as well. Right or wrong, less crews means less planes available and more sell-offs.

 

[You're right]

Wanted to make certain everyone understood the "legal" work slowdown was having no impact on OUR owners.

Okay, let me correct myself, there is definitely no slowdown going on at NetJets.

Our pilots are just much sicker and the planes (average age 4.7 years) are getting old.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

"pilot group is doing with write-ups, DNIF's, etc is creating incredible havoc on an already disorganized scheduling/maintenance department."

Also sounds like no confidence in the Union MEC, for if they did, they wouldn't need to resort to this... Seems like the pilots are bargaining outside of the CBA.

TTC

 

[Fracster]

Also sounds like no confidence in the Union MEC, for if they did, they wouldn't need to resort to this... Seems like the pilots are bargaining outside of the CBA.

That is by far one of the dumbest comments I have ever read. So stupid in fact that anyone with common sense could figure out the truth.

the planes (average age 4.7 years) are getting old.

And this comment, well, you couldnt be more ignorant if you tried so I will try to educate you. Follow along now, I know its hard for you but focus.

Simply put, these corporate jets were never designed to fly the amount of legs and hours we use them for. You puzzle palace know it all's think we write these planes up for wings falling off. We write them up because they cant hold hydraulic pressure, accumulator pressure, lights dont work, FMS tubes fade out, O2 masks break, emergency lights break, gear doors dont stay closed. The interiors, which the beloved owners use, have broken lights, broken seats, dvd/cd players, toilets, window shades,filthy carpets, I can go on, and on, and on. We have to try to keep these pos's in the air.
We have to write this crap up so it can get fixed. It NutJets had any common sense what so ever they would fix stuff over night but they dont. "get one more leg out of it" is the motto.
Now crawl back to your hole and educate some of your fellow dummies.

 

[You're right]

And this comment, well, you couldnt be more ignorant if you tried so I will try to educate you. Follow along now, I know its hard for you but focus.

Simply put, these corporate jets were never designed to fly the amount of legs and hours we use them for. You puzzle palace know it all's think we write these planes up for wings falling off. We write them up because they cant hold hydraulic pressure, accumulator pressure, lights dont work, FMS tubes fade out, O2 masks break, emergency lights break, gear doors dont stay closed. The interiors, which the beloved owners use, have broken lights, broken seats, dvd/cd players, toilets, window shades,filthy carpets, I can go on, and on, and on. We have to try to keep these pos's in the air.
We have to write this crap up so it can get fixed. It NutJets had any common sense what so ever they would fix stuff over night but they dont. "get one more leg out of it" is the motto.
Now crawl back to your hole and educate some of your fellow dummies.

Fracster, I truly want to believe in all the constructive feedback you provide, but I just saw the NJA Maintenance availability posting by fleet for todays activity and then called my friends down in Hilton Head to find out there figures---- the numbers are as follows:

NJA average availability = 66% (which is a good day lately)
NJI average availability = 85% (which, I am told, is an average day)

Under your tutelage above, this leads me to believe the availability difference must be a management issue. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Diesel]

actually a large part of the difference is they fly gulfstreams and we fly cessna's.

I'm sure GV will even agree that the gulfstream is built to the next level while the cessna's barely make it to the lowest level.

One of my last flights in the ultra had 10,000hrs on it and it was only 6 years old. That thing was a POS. I bet you can put 10,000hrs on a gwhiz and it will just keep on truckin.

compare a 800xp's line stats to a X or a ultra. it will make you cringe.

Look at the 650's. I've never seen one fly... it just goes from service center to service center.

Are the pilots flying their aircraft more carefully? I hope so. But you're comparing a cessna pos to the flagship of the buisness jet world. Common man.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

We write them up because they cant hold hydraulic pressure, accumulator pressure, lights dont work, FMS tubes fade out, O2 masks break, emergency lights break, gear doors dont stay closed. The interiors, which the beloved owners use, have broken lights, broken seats, dvd/cd players, toilets, window shades,filthy carpets, I can go on, and on, and on. We have to try to keep these pos's in the air.
We have to write this crap up so it can get fixed. It NutJets had any common sense what so ever they would fix stuff over night but they dont. "get one more leg out of it" is the motto.
Now crawl back to your hole and educate some of your fellow dummies.

Yeah, I am sure we have plenty of mechanics waiting to fix these planes in the out of the way places where the planes are being written up after being ferried in. For the rest they have an MEL don't they? They don't get grounded for MEL's do they? And it's pretty amazing that the emergency lights worked before they departed...

TTC

 

[TheTruthCMH]

That is by far one of the dumbest comments I have ever read. So stupid in fact that anyone with common sense could figure out the truth. QUOTE]

The truth being that you are in an illegal slow down. Anyone with 1/2 a brain could figure that one out.

The Truth Hurts

TTC

 

[Diesel]

TTC-

Have you ever flown a cessna? It's a POS.

What's the biggest downing item in the XL. The emergency lights. When do the emer lights go on? anytime it's below 18k. How many emer lights are there over the wing? 1

It either work or it doesn't. Problem is most the time it doesn't.

Trust me i don't want to be stuck in BFE. Stupid holiday inn express.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

TTC-

Have you ever flown a cessna? It's a POS.

What's the biggest downing item in the XL. The emergency lights. When do the emer lights go on? anytime it's below 18k. How many emer lights are there over the wing? 1

It either work or it doesn't. Problem is most the time it doesn't.

Trust me i don't want to be stuck in BFE. Stupid holiday inn express.

Do 152/172/182's count?

TTC

 

[Diesel]

illegal slow down where? ooooh that's right in your mind.

yet another name on anynomus message board blasting the pilots.

 

[Diesel]

so you've flown an XL? What are you typed in. 172's don't count.

Most of us on this board have the cahones to put our experience on here. It adds to credibility.

You have none

 

[TheTruthCMH]

illegal slow down where? ooooh that's right in your mind.

yet another name on anynomus message board blasting the pilots.

There are plenty of people on these boards wishing us a "Happy Holiday." Can't wait for "Red October and Black November."

These aren't truly well wishes.

TTC

 

[Fozzy]

TTC,
F off. What you say does not matter. It is what it is.
The planes are broken. Prove us otherwise. Again, PROVE US WRONG! DO IT! SHOW US A WRITE UP THAT IS BOGUS! You can not do it so shut the F up! You are making accusations that are false. The plane is broke so it is written up. That is what a professional does. No merit system here like other frac's.

So drop your crap unless you have a FAA action against a crew member for a bogus write up.

Didn't think so.

Tool.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

TTC,
F off. What you say does not matter. It is what it is.
The planes are broken. Prove us otherwise. Again, PROVE US WRONG! DO IT! SHOW US A WRITE UP THAT IS BOGUS! You can not do it so shut the F up! You are making accusations that are false. The plane is broke so it is written up. That is what a professional does. No merit system here like other frac's.

So drop your crap unless you have a FAA action against a crew member for a bogus write up.

Didn't think so.

Tool.

That's some funny stuff! I've heard many times about maintenance going to a plane and not being able to find half the stuff that gets written up. What does that tell, the mechanic is a moron or that the write up was bogus?

The Truth Hurts

TTC

 

[Ultra Grump]

ultra, you missed my point- entirely.

I will not make it easier for you-

No, I didn't miss your point. It was stupid, unrealistic, and misguided. Nice job!

 

[Fozzy]

No, what that means is that you have never flown for a living. Half the stuff we find happens in the air. And on the ground it just does not reoccur. Please please call me out on this in this forum. I am sure even the most anti union pro NJI pilot will tell you how it works. $hit happens in the air that is just wrong and broke, but will not happen on the ground.

But seeing you are not an ATP OR a A&P, I suggest you drop what you know nothing about.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

No, what that means is that you have never flown for a living. Half the shoot we find happens in the air. And on the ground it just does not reoccur. Please please call me out on this in this forum. I am sure even the most anti union pro NJI pilot will tell you how it works. $hit happens in the air that is just wrong and broke, but will not happen on the ground.

But seeing you are not an ATP OR a A&P, I suggest you drop what you know nothing about.

I know enough about the subject.

The Truth Hurts

TTC

 

[Fozzy]

Translation. You don't know $hit.

Keep talking tool. I am here to tell you to stick to answering the phones. You are not trained in these areas.

Question. What writeup gets a pilots attention. One where the fix says, "Ground check sat".

Get a clue tool.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

Question. What writeup gets a pilots attention. One where the fix says, "Gound check sat".

Get a clue tool.

"Gound"

Get spell check.

The Truth Hurts

TTC

 

[Fozzy]

Is that all you got? "Spell check"?!?

Please.

 

[Diesel]

I know enough about the subject.

translation- I see it done so i know emough about the subject. never actually done it but i've never done it and don't have any training to do it.

Anything that you say now will just make it look like you're trying to talk pilot talk with the pilots.

thanks for coming. I'll look forward to your new screename.

 

[Fozzy]

But Diesel,

You made a spelling error. How can you live with that.

I love all these idiots coming in here a spouting off about something they would need YEARS of experience to be able to do for a paycheck.
Go back to school. You do not have the right to an opinion in this matter.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

illegal slow down where? ooooh that's right in your mind.

yet another name on anynomus message board blasting the pilots.

Paste from another thread from Bad Monkey:

"Profession or hobby, you my management mole have decided, now live with what you sowed and enjoy it.

Merry Christmas"

I am sure comments like this are truly meant in good taste, right? Why, it's not even CLOSE to Christmas, why on earth would anyone make a statement like this?

The Truth Hurts Diesel, I know you can't admit what is happening on a public board but you KNOW it's the TRUTH.

TTC

 

[TheTruthCMH]

translation- I see it done so i know emough about the subject. never actually done it but i've never done it and don't have any training to do it.

Anything that you say now will just make it look like you're trying to talk pilot talk with the pilots.

thanks for coming. I'll look forward to your new screename.

.....

 

[Diesel]

bueler bueler.................

thanks for playing ttc. on to your next screen name.

the sad part is if you had any aviation experience you would post it but you're too afraid that people will figure out who you are.

anonimity is great.

hahaaa

 

[Fracster]

That's some funny stuff! I've heard many times about maintenance going to a plane and not being able to find half the stuff that gets written up. What does that tell, the mechanic is a moron or that the write up was bogus?

Provide proof! Lets hear specific examples. You morons love to spit out statistics and fact to issues you know absolutely nothing about, similar to a child repeating what their parents say.

As for the NJI guys and their stats, well, Im sure a large majority of those guys are operating illegaly. They are carrying write ups which we do not do. I will concede the Gulfstream is a much more realiable aircraft than any of our but they still break and those guys do not write them up as we do.