NJA size

[G4dude]

Management says NJA is making money, yet they still want concessions. If their decisions start coming back to haunt them and the company starts losing money again, furlough my butt, but I will actively do what must be done to discourage them from further attacking the contract. If I have to go somewhere else to fly or do a different career, then so be it. But I will not stab my brothers in the back and let management make this job not worth having. If the economy continues to suck and the company needs to shrink some more, I can accept that. What I can't accept is giving up what has been fought for and then getting furloughed anyway.

The company position on scope seems moderate and reasonable to me and my buds at the former NJI, who view the union communiques with some hilarity. Those 411 messages are really funny!

 

[G4dude]

management needs to take the pay cuts and concessions....the pilots dont have anything left to give away.

Yeah, we have an industry leading contract, but we pilots are broke and discouraged. This is tragic...tragic, I tell you!

 

[jtf]

Those "moderate" contact demands on scope will allow the company to shrink the current NJA workforce and put more flying with others. It is almost exactly like what happened to the major airlines when they allowed the regionals to start flying the rj's. Eventually the regionals took about half the flights and the majors took half the pay. We gave up more money to get this scope and to get you nonunionized G drivers into the union with us so that the company couldn't shrink us and give you more of the flying using new smaller airplanes. Of course you side with the company- they really never actively screwed you and your position is relatively protected. I doubt anyone will be able to change your mind unless the company is able to really get what they want and you watch a bunch of your friends get furloughed as they shrink the operation down and do the flying with EJA. Like I said before, if we shrink and EJA isn't taking over the flying, I'm ok if it's due to the economy, but if they shrink us to grow outside the union, you will get to learn the hard way what happens to everyone's pay and benefits once the concessions begin to pile up. At least the majority here is willing to learn from history to avoid the same old mistakes.

 

[G4dude]

Those "moderate" contact demands on scope will allow the company to shrink the current NJA workforce and put more flying with others. It is almost exactly like what happened to the major airlines when they allowed the regionals to start flying the rj's. Eventually the regionals took about half the flights and the majors took half the pay. We gave up more money to get this scope and to get you nonunionized G drivers into the union with us so that the company couldn't shrink us and give you more of the flying using new smaller airplanes. Of course you side with the company- they really never actively screwed you and your position is relatively protected. I doubt anyone will be able to change your mind unless the company is able to really get what they want and you watch a bunch of your friends get furloughed as they shrink the operation down and do the flying with EJA. Like I said before, if we shrink and EJA isn't taking over the flying, I'm ok if it's due to the economy, but if they shrink us to grow outside the union, you will get to learn the hard way what happens to everyone's pay and benefits once the concessions begin to pile up. At least the majority here is willing to learn from history to avoid the same old mistakes.

It seems to me the Union is saying that NJA is purposely being shrunken in order to shift flying to EJM. I believe we are shrinking due to the shrinking fractional market caused by the weakening economy. I want you and I to have a healthy company to fly for. The union leadership is wrong, in my opinion, and breathtakingly so, as usual. If they allowed you to be happy with the company, what would you need the Union "leaders" for? Those "leaders" certainly don't "lead" me and my friends at the former NJI. We were just fine before we were forced to join the union.

 

[G4dude]

Those "moderate" contact demands on scope will allow the company to shrink the current NJA workforce and put more flying with others. It is almost exactly like what happened to the major airlines when they allowed the regionals to start flying the rj's. Eventually the regionals took about half the flights and the majors took half the pay. We gave up more money to get this scope and to get you nonunionized G drivers into the union with us so that the company couldn't shrink us and give you more of the flying using new smaller airplanes. Of course you side with the company- they really never actively screwed you and your position is relatively protected. I doubt anyone will be able to change your mind unless the company is able to really get what they want and you watch a bunch of your friends get furloughed as they shrink the operation down and do the flying with EJA. Like I said before, if we shrink and EJA isn't taking over the flying, I'm ok if it's due to the economy, but if they shrink us to grow outside the union, you will get to learn the hard way what happens to everyone's pay and benefits once the concessions begin to pile up. At least the majority here is willing to learn from history to avoid the same old mistakes.

Including us in the union was altruistic? What a laugh. It was a naked power play. Now y'all are stuck with several hundred conservative anti-union pilots who think Luthi is an idiot.

 

[CA1900]

The company position on scope seems moderate and reasonable to me and my buds at the former NJI...

I could not disagree more with this. Their position on scope would immediately shrink our company for the benefit of contractors, and put hundreds more of your coworkers (including some of your former NJI friends) out of a job.

It seems to me the Union is saying that NJA is purposely being shrunken in order to shift flying to EJM. I believe we are shrinking due to the shrinking fractional market...

If that's the case, then the company would have no reason to outsource flying demand that doesn't exist.

Those "leaders" certainly don't "lead" me and my friends at the former NJI. We were just fine before we were forced to join the union.

And when the Gulfstreams are eventually removed from the fleet in favor of the new Global Express aircraft, you'd be out of a job had the union not pressed for integration.

 

[G4dude]

Thanks for that intelligent post, CA1900. However, you said, "If that's the case, then the company would have no reason to outsource flying demand that doesn't exist." The demand for overflow flights DOES exist in spurts, which are, in my opinion, not adequately allowed for by the contract. I don't feel contrarian, I just agree with the company on this issue. There are things that could be improved at NJA, things which union guys and gals might agree with, but this is not one of them. I am enjoying this discussion, though. Although Fisch and Bent do get a little testy...

 

[G4dude]

This was said, "And when the Gulfstreams are eventually removed from the fleet in favor of the new Global Express aircraft, you'd be out of a job had the union not pressed for integration."

if the Gulfstreams go away, I will be happy to fly whatever else we have with wings. Might be nice to avoid the jet lag! I would miss the flight attendants though, they are good social directors during layovers.

 

[fischman]

Thanks for that intelligent post, CA1900. However, you said, "If that's the case, then the company would have no reason to outsource flying demand that doesn't exist." The demand for overflow flights DOES exist in spurts, which are, in my opinion, not adequately allowed for by the contract. I don't feel contrarian, I just agree with the company on this issue. There are things that could be improved at NJA, things which union guys and gals might agree with, but this is not one of them. I am enjoying this discussion, though. Although Fisch and Bent do get a little testy...

poke poke...

Yeah, I don't like it when people volunteer to weaken my hard fought CBA, take food off my table, and take the roof off of my children's heads.

 

[CA1900]

This was said, "And when the Gulfstreams are eventually removed from the fleet in favor of the new Global Express aircraft, you'd be out of a job had the union not pressed for integration."

if the Gulfstreams go away, I will be happy to fly whatever else we have with wings.

My point was that, had we not pushed for integration, you wouldn't have that opportunity. Our contract with the company encompassed all flying other than the large Gulfstream aircraft, which would have put you out of work when those aircraft went away.