NJA signing bonus

[realityman]

Why don't we let our negotiators negotiate? Why all the anger before we know what the offer is?

Man, why don't you try getting yourself up to speed before making ignorant comments.

We DO know what their offer was. Try keeping up.

And if you knew what their offer was and STILL aren't angry, then you'd definitely be better off working somewhere else.

I've already written ad nauseum about it, but a quick recap. Your union LEADERSHIP has gone to great lengths to set up new pickets. They have been asking all of us to go out and walk, and tweet the union messages. They have repeatedly asked us all to do nothing illegal, either for or against the company. What makes you think anyone wants us to just sit back and let the negotiators negotiate?

Do you actually need a brick to slam into the side of your head with a note from union leadership asking you to participate before you'll get involved?

You're a leech. I know who you are and I think I'll go check the seniority list. It'll be good to see you moving out of the Gulfstreams with this next CBA if you're relatively junior.

 

[G4dude]

It is a negotiation. Do you expect the company's early offer to be high? Negotiations don't work that way. All pilots I flew with last several tours agree with me. Let the negotiations proceed, and see what the result is. Then we decide if we like it or not. We don't understand the anger DURING the process, or why y'all are angry with me. Wait to see what the union gets us, then get angry if it is not good enough. We pay the union to represent us, so let it do so.

 

[ghostrider64]

Spoken like a true scab want to be. Yeah that's right, I'll never forget your words. All scabs say the crap you do, then when things go south they don't follow the unions guidance to not cross a line. I hope you get displaced to the phenom.

 

[realityman]

It is a negotiation. Do you expect the company's early offer to be high? Negotiations don't work that way. All pilots I flew with last several tours agree with me. Let the negotiations proceed, and see what the result is. Then we decide if we like it or not. We don't understand the anger DURING the process, or why y'all are angry with me. Wait to see what the union gets us, then get angry if it is not good enough. We pay the union to represent us, so let it do so.

BS!

Answer the questions I've asked of you.

What do you think our leadership is asking us to do by setting up all the pickets and asking us to walk in them? And the twitter campaign? And asking us to do nothing illegal, either for or against the company?

I don't care about the people you fly with. Are they in union leadership?

The anger towards you is because you obviously don't understand what's happening, and no matter how many times it's been explained to you, you refuse to acknowledge what's going on or display any sign that you've gained a little insight into how this all really works. Then you come on here and ask stunningly stupid questions, such as what our signing bonus was last time and what the company's offer was when the answers to that are either easily obtainable from our union or have actually been given outright from our union. It displays an amazing lack of ability to be the least little bit engaged, then have the nerve to come on ANY message board and tell us how you and "some people you fly with" know what we should be doing, even when what you think we should be doing flies directly in the face of what our very union leadership has asked us to do (oh, and our NC has made the very same requests of us. At NO point have either of those two groups told us to sit back and let them do their thing. They have been practically BEGGING for pilot involvement).

You're certainly entitled to post any opinion you like on whatever message board(s) you choose to visit. Just don't be surprised when people call you out on your glaring ignorance.

And yes, there will be anger when those who are actually involved and doing the heavy lifting to get YOU a nice new CBA you'll very much like end up listening to the cro magnon man drivel of those who have never been through this process before and who obstinately (or through cowardice) refuse to participate in obtaining our COLLECTIVE goals . It's one of the downsides of unionism, where those who do nothing still gain all the benefits from those who work for it. We're all working for the same company so we all implicitly accept it, but to wonder why there is so much anger towards yourself and those like you is also brazenly moronic.

 

[realityman]

Negotiations don't work that way.

THIS!^^^ From someone who has admitted on these very boards that he's never been in a union shop before or negotiated for a contract before. And you'd write the above even after people who have been through this very process before have explained it to you ad nauseum. Even after your union leadership AND NC have explained how it works and what they need from us to succeed in negotiations.

So do tell, how did you, and the people you've been flying with, reach your conclusions on how negotiations work. I'm all ears. (and while you're at it, would you kindly mind explaining why you don't seem to believe one word of anything people who've been through this before have been telling you?).

 

[G4dude]

THIS!^^^ From someone who has admitted on these very boards that he's never been in a union shop before or negotiated for a contract before. And you'd write the above even after people who have been through this very process before have explained it to you ad nauseum. Even after your union leadership AND NC have explained how it works and what they need from us to succeed in negotiations.

So do tell, how did you, and the people you've been flying with, reach your conclusions on how negotiations work. I'm all ears. (and while you're at it, would you kindly mind explaining why you don't seem to believe one word of anything people who've been through this before have been telling you?).

Many of the pilots who agree with me HAVE been through the process before. I don't always agree with the Luthi clones. Your behavior here reinforces my opinions about union fanatics. I have met several, and they are unpleasant people, without exception. Boorish, ignorant of what market forces do, and willing to coerce others. I am proud you and Diesel and Ghost feel antipathy towards me. I like my friends and am happy goons like you are my enemies.

 

[ghostrider64]

Good, then quit, because you and your few like minded idiots, pale in comparison to over 800 who owned it on their time off. While you and your sat on your ass and did NOTHING! Unfortunately your few friends and YOU, harm us each day.

Must be nice taking comfort in your igloo with your few friends, sharing each other.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

pathetic.

 

[G4dude]

Good, then quit, because you and your few like minded idiots, pale in comparison to over 800 who owned it on their time off. While you and your sat on your ass and did NOTHING! Unfortunately your few friends and YOU, harm us each day.

Must be nice taking comfort in your igloo with your few friends, sharing each other.

For not being angry at the early offers? Do the union members expect the company to offer a massive raise initially? Negotiations don't work like that. As the process continues, the offers will improve. We want lots, they want to give us little. Eventually a good deal will emerge. Or NJA won't be able to hire good pilots, because they will all go to Delta and Southwest and American. I have confidence NJASAP will hammer out a good deal. Why be angry DURING the bargaining process?

 

[realityman]

Many of the pilots who agree with me HAVE been through the process before. I don't always agree with the Luthi clones. Your behavior here reinforces my opinions about union fanatics. I have met several, and they are unpleasant people, without exception. Boorish, ignorant of what market forces do, and willing to coerce others. I am proud you and Diesel and Ghost feel antipathy towards me. I like my friends and am happy goons like you are my enemies.

Exactly why you are a management stooge, whether you mean to be one or not.

I notice you didn't answer any of the questions I asked of you. You can't, because to do so would reinforce that you've already made up your mind to be an anti-union hack no matter how badly you may be shooting yourself in the foot.

Go back to my post that's six up from this one and answer the questions.

If being a union "fanatic" means I'm willing to actually do what my union leadership has asked me to do so I can secure a better future for myself and my family then I proudly own up to the title!

As for ignorant of anything, you should perhaps look in the mirror. In spite of people trying to educate you on all things in the realm of "union negotiations", you persist in some of the most ignorant beliefs on here.

You say the company starting with a low-ball offer is pretty standard in negotiations. Obviously! But what will be their motivation to raise their offer? You seem to think our NC simply going back to the table over and over again will get it done, even when our own previous negotiations, as well as those of our own FA's, mechanics, dispatchers, FLOPS, and even the major airlines has repeatedly shown it takes a great deal more than that to get it done.

I don't know, you tell me, what's a word to describe someone who either won't, or lacks the ability to, learn from history?

I've met plenty of your kind too. Lazy, apathetic, ignorant, willing to let others put themselves out there for your benefit, believing some mysterious outside force (like "market forces") will achieve goals, and unwilling to listen to those who have their best interests at heart. Talk about an unpleasant group!


By the way, trying to coerce others is what ANY passionate group does. Look around you at any group fighting for a cause. There's power in numbers! I'm not your enemy. I have no idea why you'd think that. Everything we achieve in this next CBA YOU will also enjoy! I want you fighting for the same thing. How does that make you my enemy? And I've tried to coerce you by answering many of your past questions and providing as much info as I possibly could on how this works, how it's worked in the past, and the likely outcomes depending on whether enough people are engaged or not. I've given you INFORMATION. Nothing more, nothing less. If that's not something you can handle or are interested in, then once again please check a local mirror for the definition of "Boorish" and "Ignorant".

 

[realityman]

Eventually a good deal will emerge.

How?

A good deal didn't simply "emerge" last time around.

Forget about some supposed pilot shortage. NJA will always find pilots willing to come here. We aren't on par with the majors, but we're definitely better than the regionals. Keep dreaming about those market forces though.

 

[NachoMamma]

We want lots, they want to give us little.

What's this "We" sh!t? You're on your own new guy.

 

[fob727]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...n-even-pilots-sometimes-have-picket/73465504/

 

[Diesel]

For not being angry at the early offers? Do the union members expect the company to offer a massive raise initially? Negotiations don't work like that. As the process continues, the offers will improve. We want lots, they want to give us little. Eventually a good deal will emerge. Or NJA won't be able to hire good pilots, because they will all go to Delta and Southwest and American. I have confidence NJASAP will hammer out a good deal. Why be angry DURING the bargaining process?

I love how you with no experience, no backbone, no history, that has been proven wrong at every post, and wanting to scab is explaining to us how negotiations work. Haha that is great.

Please as I've asked time and time again please grace us with your experience in union negotiations and what contracts you've worked under.

All the guys you fly with? I know all the guys you fly with and nobody agrees with you. They just know that you aren't smart enough to understand the argument.

 

[gunfyter]

I hang around with a lot of libertarians (like G4 dude) so I know how they think. "The key principle of liberalism is peace." He's not trying to screw you but what he perceives as union tactics is against his core beliefs like pork is against some people's religious beliefs.

I like the principle of peace. But it has to be a two way street... and in these negotiations it is not.


http://fee.org/freeman/the-peace-principle/

 

[G4dude]

I love how you with no experience, no backbone, no history, that has been proven wrong at every post, and wanting to scab is explaining to us how negotiations work. Haha that is great.

Please as I've asked time and time again please grace us with your experience in union negotiations and what contracts you've worked under.

All the guys you fly with? I know all the guys you fly with and nobody agrees with you. They just know that you aren't smart enough to understand the argument.

You are lying.

 

[Diesel]

You are lying.

Still no answers from you.

Still no expertise from you.

Still no action from you.

Yet the only thing you can come up with is I'm lying.

When is your next excuse? That just drives me to work harder and harder at making sure we have a contract we can be proud of.

Will we see you at the NYC picket?

Remember your Union is asking for your help in supporting these Pickets.

If your excuse is you are working then you can donate miles and/or money to support fellow brothers.

Will you be doing any of this?

 

[OPECJet]

Lazy, apathetic, ignorant, willing to let others put themselves out there for your benefit, believing some mysterious outside force (like "market forces") will achieve goals, and unwilling to listen to those who have their best interests at heart. Talk about an unpleasant group. [\QUOTE]


You forgot "coward".

 

[Diesel]

Hey GIV Dude did you sign up for KCM yet?

 

[rajflyboy]

G4

If you can't run with the big dogs its time to get off the porch