NJA Radical Children

[Diesel]

Yup happy because lazyness is bliss.

If there is a 50 plus 1 will you then sign up or come up with another excuse?

 

[gutshotdraw]

I won't sign up regardless. NJASAP will soon be my bargaining agent and my conduit of information. My effort will be expended within that organization.

I'm curious. You're a member of NJASAP but you're joining GPAC too? How does that work?

 

[Diesel]

Am I not a gulfstream pilot?

I sure am signing up because I am a gulfstream pilot but also a dues paying member of the union. I'm lucky I get to hear both sides of the argument while most NJI pilots only hear the side the company wants them to hear. Often it has an interesting slant that makes me chuckle.

I'm joining because there are things we do that the union should learn about and understand. I realize that if they are dealing with a select few (selected by those that drive G's) the message of what we need, want, and expect will be a lot clearer.

If you had access to our union board you would see that I am constantly trying to demystify what we do to those that are willing to listen. A good thing is a lot are willing to listen. Even the union leadership.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Guts,

I wont argue your personal views, everyone has them. But here is where I get lost in translation...

Back in September/October when the "announcement" was made, NJI pilots went ballistic. Pissed off doesn't do justice to what our pilots were saying about everyone from Warren to the Assistant Chief. Within a few weeks, the sentiment grew and a resounding message was sent to Okatie...

"WE WANT A VOICE AND A SAY IN WHAT HAPPENS FROM THIS POINT FORWARD"

If you don't believe that statement was pounded out by the rank and file, you have your head deeper in the sand than I thought. You and I both know dozens and dozens of our pilots complained and talked to their group leaders and upper management and expressed their concerns that we have someone representing our interests in the integration. Not one single response to that request came from management.

SOOooooo...

Wham Bam, GPAC comes out of the rank and file to give our pilots exactly what they want, a voice and an opportunity to share their thoughts directly with the people who will guide this integration. And lo and behold the union actually supports GPAC of all things.


But...

Thats not good enough for you, and because you dont like who started it, or what its doing, or how its laid out, or what ever has crawled up your *ss about it... you trash the idea and trash the people who support it.

Personally I dont care if you support GPAC or not. But your lack of understanding the internal workings of a union and what it takes to make the association function are obvious in your take on GPAC. In the letter sent to NJI pilots from NJASAP the integration team openly endorsed GPAC and asked NJI pilots to support the effort because they (the union) see the validity in working with a committee of NJI pilots.

Your idea that the effort is fruitless is confusing.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Am I not a gulfstream pilot?

I sure am signing up because I am a gulfstream pilot but also a dues paying member of the union. I'm lucky I get to hear both sides of the argument while most NJI pilots only hear the side the company wants them to hear. Often it has an interesting slant that makes me chuckle.

I'm joining because there are things we do that the union should learn about and understand. I realize that if they are dealing with a select few (selected by those that drive G's) the message of what we need, want, and expect will be a lot clearer.

If you had access to our union board you would see that I am constantly trying to demystify what we do to those that are willing to listen. A good thing is a lot are willing to listen. Even the union leadership.

I hear you Diesel, that's why I have been talking directly to two people at the forefront of the integration process including a NJASAP Trustee that I have known since long before he joined Netjets. He put me in touch with an NJASAP integration rep that was anxious to hear from a line pilot about how NJI operates that is different from NJA. I told him they were strictly my opinions and he accepted them as such.

NJASAP wants as much input as possible from NJI pilots which is perhaps why they have embraced the notion of GPAC. The rep told me they would like to find a way to incorporate some of the better ways NJI does things into the entire operation. But if some NJI pilots think GPAC will somehow alter the outcome of the integration, especially with respect to seniority, that is, I think, naive. When it comes to pay, benefits, seniority and a few other core issues, it will be the CBA down the line.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Guts,

I wont argue your personal views, everyone has them. But here is where I get lost in translation...

Back in September/October when the "announcement" was made, NJI pilots went ballistic. Pissed off doesn't do justice to what our pilots were saying about everyone from Warren to the Assistant Chief. Within a few weeks, the sentiment grew and a resounding message was sent to Okatie...

"WE WANT A VOICE AND A SAY IN WHAT HAPPENS FROM THIS POINT FORWARD"

If you don't believe that statement was pounded out by the rank and file, you have your head deeper in the sand than I thought. You and I both know dozens and dozens of our pilots complained and talked to their group leaders and upper management and expressed their concerns that we have someone representing our interests in the integration. Not one single response to that request came from management.

SOOooooo...

Wham Bam, GPAC comes out of the rank and file to give our pilots exactly what they want, a voice and an opportunity to share their thoughts directly with the people who will guide this integration. And lo and behold the union actually supports GPAC of all things.


But...

Thats not good enough for you, and because you dont like who started it, or what its doing, or how its laid out, or what ever has crawled up your *ss about it... you trash the idea and trash the people who support it.

Personally I dont care if you support GPAC or not. But your lack of understanding the internal workings of a union and what it takes to make the association function are obvious in your take on GPAC. In the letter sent to NJI pilots from NJASAP the integration team openly endorsed GPAC and asked NJI pilots to support the effort because they (the union) see the validity in working with a committee of NJI pilots.

Your idea that the effort is fruitless is confusing.

Wolfy, I would ask you to re-read my post of November 8 from Rusty's GPAC update thread. Especially the last paragraph. I have never trashed the pilots who started GPAC (I still don't know who they are and frankly haven't asked) nor the pilots who support it.

I was not at all surprised by the September announcement of the intent to integrate. It happened about 6-12 months earlier than I expected but the outcome was never in doubt since the LOA of November 2005 that allowed NJA pilots to bid over to NJI. Anyone who didn't see that handwriting on the wall was fooling themselves and I said so in more than one post on this forum.

I know you were heavily involved in your union in your past 121 life. But you don't hold an exclusive license on the inner workings of a union. I have been there, and done that, front row seat (including a strike).

I agree with you that the silence from Okatie has been deafening and that has been disappointing. I've been puzzled by their handling of the integration issue for more than three years now.

As I told Diesel in the post above, I am involved in the association that will represent me in less than two years if only on an informal but direct basis. Once the integration is complete and we begin to pay dues, who knows how my involvement will change.

I'm really not trying to trash you, Diesel, GPAC or anybody else. I have just chosen to channel my input through a different funnel.

So Happy Thanksgiving to you.

 

[Diesel]

As I told Diesel in the post above, I am involved in the association that will represent me in less than two years if only on an informal but direct basis. Once the integration is complete and we begin to pay dues, who knows how my involvement will change.

I'm really not trying to trash you, Diesel, GPAC or anybody else. I have just chosen to channel my input through a different funnel.

so why don't you join your fellow pilots voice so that our voice is heard louder?

You have no problem talking directly to the union. The union has already acknowledged the benefits that gpac will have on the integration. So why not and help out that by simply registering.

Or maybe you have another plan in mind?

 

[jetlag7]

The Radical union (kids) at NJA need to get a handle on their attitude before all the B.S. on (F-them) gets out to NJI pilots. This attitude toward NJI WILL NOT HELP in the trans. NJI didn't create this mess, RTS and the old union did. THIS is a business, nothing more. The majority of NJI pilots are mature and very experienced, and want their jobs to remain unchanged. I have witnessed Poor attitudes from NJA guys toward NJI more than a few times. The NJASAP union appears to trying to make this go smoothly but there are always a few BONE HEAD children that stir the pot because they think the company or NJI owes them something. Lets make this as painless as possible for all. So all the smart and mature guys at NJA plz try to calm these guys down, they will only hurt the merge.
:beer:

This post is spreading "good-will" and "fellowship" exactly how???

 

[YankeeEcho]

Guts,

........ In the letter sent to NJI pilots from NJASAP the integration team openly endorsed GPAC and asked NJI pilots to support the effort because they (the union) see the validity in working with a committee of NJI pilots...........quote]


What letter sent "..to the NJI pilots from NJASAP..." ????

I haven't seen one!

 

[jenex]

GPAC will have little influence on this integration even if they are voted in.
This integration will be controlled by the previous Union Leader Bill Olsen.
The majority, NJA will swallow the minority. They have no duty to represent the minority and will not do so until the NJI pilots are paying members.

They will grab as many seats as the LOA allows. Its about cash and getting more for there members.

There will only be a small number of NJI pilots adversely affected by the integration. Current NJI FO, and thats it.