NJA orders 50 Phenom 300s

[gret]

So how do we know that Cessna created CS to directly compete with NJ?

It would seem that if both are in the same business, they compete against one another.

Maybe you could you either reconsider your question or rephrase it.

 

[Crash Pad]

My questions are posed due to the cockiness of one poster's remarks. We were not there when Cessna joined with TAG, so why assume that this was some sort of conspiracy. The "how dare they!" attitude was quite egotistical. Cessna is in the business of selling a/c, not solely providing NJ with a/c like said poster alluded to. And now 10+ years later, why wouldn't Cessna be pissed? NJ backed out on a 100 a/c deal.

 

[imacdog]

And now 10+ years later, why wouldn't Cessna be pissed? NJ backed out on a 100 a/c deal.

They don't need to be pissed because it's business. Cessna decided to compete with NetJets, so NetJets decides to not support Cessna as much. Nothing personal.

 

[Crash Pad]

Oh boy, here we go with the arrogance again. I don't care who NJ supports, or any fractional for that matter. But to say they don't need to be pissed? Wow, you make it sound like they cancelled a subscription to a magazine. And yet again, I don't think that the a/c cancellation was based on this conspiracy theory of "they decided to compete against us."

 

[gunfyter]

No. The cancellation was not based on that. The cancellation was based on market conditions. It was Business. Just like when Cessna decided to compete with one of their customers. Its biggest customer. It was business.

 

[BoilerUP]

NetJets didn't cancel orders with Cessna because of CitationAir - they canceled orders because they were bleeding cash in the downturn due to a lack of new share owners...the same reason they canceled $2.6B worth of orders with HawkerBeechcraft late last year. I mean think about it...if NJA really had heartburn about Cessna's involvement in CitationShares, they wouldn't have taken delivery of those many dozen Citations they've bought since 2000...

The bottom line is the Phenom 300 has most of the performance of the CJ4 with a minimally larger cabin cross section than the Citation, inspection intervals double that of the Citation, and a list price roughly $2M per unit lower. With NJA looking at a fleet recapitalization to lower costs, the P300 as their light jet makes a lot of "just business" sense...and that's why I really wouldn't be surprised to see a large NJA Legacy 450 and/or 500 order in the next couple years.

 

[imacdog]

Oh boy, here we go with the arrogance again. I don't care who NJ supports, or any fractional for that matter. But to say they don't need to be pissed? Wow, you make it sound like they cancelled a subscription to a magazine. And yet again, I don't think that the a/c cancellation was based on this conspiracy theory of "they decided to compete against us."

No arrogance involved. Business is business, and NetJets is free to purchase aircraft from whomever they want.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Which can be redeemed at The LuBar and Bistro in Carlyle, IL. Tell them THE Fischman sent you.

Oh snap... word's out! www.thelubar.com
:beer:

 

[Hogprint]

With NJA looking at a fleet recapitalization to lower costs, the P300 as their light jet makes a lot of "just business" sense...and that's why I really wouldn't be surprised to see a large NJA Legacy 450 and/or 500 order in the next couple years.

The force is strong with you young Skywalker! Not to mention it's a common type.

A couple more points on the order. The Garmin package is going to stay. There was talk that is should/could be replaced with Collins but looks like that was shot down.

There is no APU, but it has an electric environ pack, so with a GPU it can be HEATED & COOLED. Definitely a step up from the 560 and 400.

That was the gouge as of last weeks Comp Rec. luncheon with the CP who actually got some stick time in the 300. It is early in the game so I guess anything could change, but it looks pretty solid from what I heard.

Let's just hope it can live up to the hype.

 

[johnsonrod]

I wonder if this could lead to another Embraer order - for the Legacy 450/500. Nice sidesticks with FBW:

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com...ps/popups_img.asp?strImg=legacy500_cockpit_01


Perhaps you guys could replace those G2Uglies with the 450/500s... :laugh::laugh:

 

[Hogprint]

I wonder if this could lead to another Embraer order - for the Legacy 450/500. Nice sidesticks with FBW:

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com...ps/popups_img.asp?strImg=legacy500_cockpit_01


Perhaps you guys could replace those G2Uglies with the 450/500s... :laugh::laugh:

If I were a betting man...

 

[RNObased]

the same reason they canceled $2.6B worth of orders with HawkerBeechcraft late last year.

Not exactly the same reason, HawkerBeech can't get an airplane to market if their life depended upon it. Example the Horizon/4000 or whatever the name of that thing is. HawkerBeech should stop trying to make new airplanes and concentrate on what they do best, recycling planes someone else designed with new avionics and calling it a new name.

 

[rajflyboy]

Not exactly the same reason, HawkerBeech can't get an airplane to market if their life depended upon it. Example the Horizon/4000 or whatever the name of that thing is. HawkerBeech should stop trying to make new airplanes and concentrate on what they do best, recycling planes someone else designed with new avionics and calling it a new name.

Didn't you ever hear of or fly an A36,B58 or King Air?

Those are some of the best planes in their markets.

Long Live Beachcraft!

 

[jetwash]

Flight Options benefits from NetJets....?



http://corpjetfin.live.subhub.com/articles/Flight-Options-benefits-from-NetJets-Phenom-300-order

 

[Pervis]

Didn't you ever hear of or fly an A36,B58 or King Air?

Those are some of the best planes in their markets.

Long Live Beachcraft!

And this has what to do with the frac market? No question the types you cite are outstanding for what they do. But anything Beech offers the frac market is sub par compared to the alternatives. Even the Hawker 900XP relies on ancient technology. You'd think they could at least recertify a hot wing. Running out of TKS fluid in ice is no fun. And the lack of baggage capacity excludes them from further sales to frac operators.

It would seem they are not really interested in the business aviation market, based upon their recent track record. And anything Boisture is involved with is questionable.

 

[RNObased]

Didn't you ever hear of or fly an A36,B58 or King Air?

Those are some of the best planes in their markets.

Long Live Beachcraft!

Having flown many Beechcraft airplanes from a V35 through King Airs, I couldn't agree more. They are fantastic planes. They do what they are designed to do very well.

However the 400xp is not a fantastic airplane and far from the best plane in it's market, and yes I have flown it.

 

[barnyard]

And this has what to do with the frac market? No question the types you cite are outstanding for what they do. But anything Beech offers the frac market is sub par compared to the alternatives. Even the Hawker 900XP relies on ancient technology. You'd think they could at least recertify a hot wing. Running out of TKS fluid in ice is no fun. And the lack of baggage capacity excludes them from further sales to frac operators.

It would seem they are not really interested in the business aviation market, based upon their recent track record. And anything Boisture is involved with is questionable.

How the heck did you run out of TKS fluid???

I agree though- they could have at least upgraded the pressure control unit.

 

[gunfyter]

Flight Options benefits from NetJets....?



http://corpjetfin.live.subhub.com/articles/Flight-Options-benefits-from-NetJets-Phenom-300-order

Ahhh But NJ is buying the Phenom 350 Platinum edition....:laugh:

 

[rajflyboy]

And this has what to do with the frac market? No question the types you cite are outstanding for what they do. But anything Beech offers the frac market is sub par compared to the alternatives. Even the Hawker 900XP relies on ancient technology. You'd think they could at least recertify a hot wing. Running out of TKS fluid in ice is no fun. And the lack of baggage capacity excludes them from further sales to frac operators.

It would seem they are not really interested in the business aviation market, based upon their recent track record. And anything Boisture is involved with is questionable.

hmm

King Airs are NOT part of the business aviation market??? Thats interesting news.

 

[Pervis]

hmm

King Airs are NOT part of the business aviation market??? Thats interesting news.

Haven't seen many King Airs in the frac world, have you?

 

[Pervis]

How the heck did you run out of TKS fluid???

I agree though- they could have at least upgraded the pressure control unit.

NJA has the big tank for fluid. I think it's about 102 minutes max, depending upon how long you use the high rate. Flew from LGA to Cleveland Lakefront and back, with icing along much of the route. None to be found in Cleveland, believe it or not. Got the low light on final into LGA. Not a comfortable place to be.

Although a rare event, the engines have been upgraded numerous times since that wing was designed, and several upgrades ago the jet could have handled a hot wing. You can only continue using old technology for so long before buyers will shop elsewhere.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

<<<< NJA has the big tank for fluid. I think it's about 102 minutes max, depending upon how long you use the high rate. >>>>

I had to check my old Hawker notes to confirm my fading memory, but 10 gals = 108 mins for the TKS. Yep, depending on availability (we carry some non-HAZ spare containers just in case now), that tank could run down slowly but surely! Stepped climb out of Moscow in winter, let-down into Innsbruck, 2 missed approaches (it seemed like a loooooong climb-out back up the valley), then divert to Friedrichshafen, low light on climb-out for the diversion.......

Going slightly off-thread, but did part of my training on the RAF's Dominie (military "H800") that had Viper 301 engines. Supposedly, the current H800 engine fuel burn to TOC equates to what the Dominie burns to about 1000 ft!! As for the initial production versions of the Hawker, well, no wonder they had to use TKS instead of hot wing, with only 3000-3100 lbs of thrust!! It's about 50% more for the 800XP.

 

[rajflyboy]

Haven't seen many King Airs in the frac world, have you?

Business Aviation Market

 

[Mike Jenvey]

This could save on delivery flights to Europe - d@mn!!

From AIN:

Embraer announced that the European Union has formally approved the company’s proposed $64.7 million manufacturing complex in Évora, Portugal. The company broke ground in July 2009.​

“This announcement is faithful to Embraer’s practices where all regional development projects have to be formally and properly approved. We’ve been waiting for the European Union to give us its final okay,” Luiz Fuchs, president of Embraer Aviation Europe, told AIN.​

The 330,000-sq-ft facility, which is dedicated to manufacturing complex airframe structures and components in composite materials, is scheduled to be completed by the end of next year. “The construction of the second unit, dedicated to the production of metallic airframe structures, will begin shortly.​

Meanwhile, we are progressing with the selection of suppliers,” he said. According to Fuchs, Embraer studied its globalization process and identified Portugal as the country offering the best resources in terms of developing the aeronautical cluster.​

“The historical connection between the two countries was an important factor,” he said.​