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NJA 1st QTR Earnings

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The safe thing about always voting no is that you get to say, "I told you so."

It always takes courage to say "yes".
 
I never said anything about negotiating IBB in 2010. We should have voted it down and immediately worked on a better IBB. The company needed IBB more than the pilots did. They would have given us what we wanted. Instead this BS was pushed down our throat.

You need to learn how to read better son or maybe you were just one of these folks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8
 
rajflyboy said:
When you are right you are right. I was right on IBB.
Click to expand...

That's funny...seeing how you're in the huge minority......And really are the only one I've ever heard say IBB was a mistake.... Guys have certain issues with sections, but all in all everyone seems to think it was a pretty good deal.

I guess you're smarter than everyone else. (if you really think negotiating in the present market is a better option than what IBB did, I am really glad you're not on the negotiating team. Although I do question you're decision making ability in the cockpit if you can't even understand simple economics in the difference between negotiating in a good vs. bad economy)

Or maybe you're a captain that got his and didn't care the outcome for those junior to him..IBB was a nice windfall for the SIC's. Not much of a dramatic change for the PIC's... But since upgrades are at maybe 10-15 years now, the SIC side is what needs to be addressed even more now...

Let's see..before IBB SIC's were leaving in droves...After IBB the attrition rate is less than 1%... In 1.5 years on furlough I've moved maybe 6 numbers...
 
IBB is old news now.

You people that threw out YES votes for IBB like they were candy need to pay much closer attention on this next round of negotiations. Thats the important part that you must understand.

and a few obviously can't READ very well either (might need a friend to read the next contract to you)
 
rajflyboy said:
IBB is old news now.

You people that threw out YES votes for IBB like they were candy need to pay much closer attention on this next round of negotiations. Thats the important part that you must understand.

and a few obviously can't READ very well either (might need a friend to read the next contract to you)
Click to expand...

Your comments do not apply to me.
 
rajflyboy said:
I never said anything about negotiating IBB in 2010. We should have voted it down and immediately worked on a better IBB. The company needed IBB more than the pilots did. They would have given us what we wanted. Instead this BS was pushed down our throat.

You need to learn how to read better son or maybe you were just one of these folks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8
Click to expand...

You sure like to put out a bunch of assumptions as if they are facts. They would have given us what we wanted? Really? And you know this how? We have NEVER been "given" anything, even with Santulli doing the negotiating. In contracts prior to '05 we obviously did a terrible job (I was there for a couple). And they were terrible because the union was weak and Santulli wasn't about to "give" us anything. And I think you know wha happened in '05. Huge improvements but they were definitely not just "given" to us! And then IBB. While certainly not of the same contentious caliber as regular section 6 negotiations, it was still a negotiation. There was give and take.

Maybe you're right. Maybe there are some things the company badly wanted with IBB. But I think you mischaracterize how "desperate" they were to get it. They said if we voted it down there would be no more negotiations. Okay, so what if that was just a ploy? (your first big assumption). We all come back to the table. You really think the company would just ante up and say "okay, you win. Here's everything you want, and we'll just keep what we've been asking for all along.". If that's what you think, perhaps YOU had better do some reading and learn A) more about all of our past negotiations within our company and B) just exactly how negotiations work, because no matter how badly you think they want something, they'll play it close and we'll have to give more to get more.

So I'll ask you AGAIN, what other things would you have been willing to give the company (things the company wanted, not smart-ass answers like 'less fatiguing day's) in order to get more of what you wanted.

Hey, if you hate the product that was IBB, that's great. We already know that some folks didn't care for it at all (at least what was finally agreed to in the end). Obviously, and as I've already said, we're going to have 3000 different opinions about it. But most folks liked it enough to vote it in. And again, just because we can all spot areas that need improvement doesn't mean that the vast majority suddenly feels we made a mistake with it. Maybe you're spending too much time on the union boards. A handful of very vocal complainers can make it seem like there's a large amount of discontent out there. Well, since '07, the majority of folks I've flown with seem happy with the end result. A few didn't like it. But the ratio seems to mirror what we saw with the vote.

Pretty arrogant of you to assume all those folks didn't/couldn't read the product and make an informed, correct decision. Who knows, maybe it's you and the 'no' minority who couldn't read and understand what was presented to us.
 
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PS- I don't understand the link you provided. Are you asking if I'm one of a group of people who can find spontaneous enjoyment in any given moment (as the folks in that scene do. Great scene by the way!). Or are you asking if I can play the banjo/guitar that well?

I'm pretty happy overall, so yes to the first, but can't play the banjo or guitar so no to the second.
 
I'm still waiting on a comprehensive list from Raj on what exactly he feels that we gave away in IBB.
 
imacdog said:
I'm still waiting on a comprehensive list from Raj on what exactly he feels that we gave away in IBB.
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Me too. I am very happy at NetJets. What are the shortcomings of the deal we have? I haven't heard any discontentment from my colleagues in the GV or the GIV, or from the guys and gals I run into from the other fleets. I can't wait for the vituperative responses to that. :-) I haven't been able to use that word in YEARS.
 
G4dude said:
Me too. I am very happy at NetJets. What are the shortcomings of the deal we have? I haven't heard any discontentment from my colleagues in the GV or the GIV, or from the guys and gals I run into from the other fleets. I can't wait for the vituperative responses to that. :-) I haven't been able to use that word in YEARS.
Click to expand...


Random alcohol test for you my friend. Using the word "vituperative" was the dead giveaway...
 
G4dude said:
Me too. I am very happy at NetJets. What are the shortcomings of the deal we have? I haven't heard any discontentment from my colleagues in the GV or the GIV, or from the guys and gals I run into from the other fleets. I can't wait for the vituperative responses to that. :-) I haven't been able to use that word in YEARS.
Click to expand...



GIV and GV

enough said
 
You know Raj, I wish you guys had voted no on IBB too...
 
Isn't that exactly where a bunch of last years "profit" came from after they wrote off the value of the "extra" airframes in 2009? They ditched a lot of airframes recently so unless they have some more cost surprises they haven't told anyone about, I'd guess the second quarter will show some artificial profit. It would sure be nice if they were even attempting to sell some new airframes to make an attempt at actual profit. But, what the heck do I know, I'm not as well versed in accounting as the bean counters/ book cookers upstairs.
 
jtf said:
Isn't that exactly where a bunch of last years "profit" came from after they wrote off the value of the "extra" airframes in 2009? They ditched a lot of airframes recently so unless they have some more cost surprises they haven't told anyone about, I'd guess the second quarter will show some artificial profit. It would sure be nice if they were even attempting to sell some new airframes to make an attempt at actual profit. But, what the heck do I know, I'm not as well versed in accounting as the bean counters/ book cookers upstairs.
Click to expand...

Nicely said !
 
I smell a raise coming. G4, do you too???
 
IBB = Interest Based Bargaining. This took place in the spring/summer of 2007. The company and union found that there were parts of the 2005 contract that were not working for them. To fix the problem they both came to the table and re-wrote the contract. Neither side got everything they wanted, but both sides came away with a win. This is how the Labor/Management Relationship Program (LMRP) works. Hopefully we will return to this mindset.
 
Willy21 said:
IBB = Interest Based Bargaining. This took place in the spring/summer of 2007. The company and union found that there were parts of the 2005 contract that were not working for them. To fix the problem they both came to the table and re-wrote the contract. Neither side got everything they wanted, but both sides came away with a win. This is how the Labor/Management Relationship Program (LMRP) works. Hopefully we will return to this mindset.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
Willy21 said:
IBB = Interest Based Bargaining. This took place in the spring/summer of 2007. The company and union found that there were parts of the 2005 contract that were not working for them. To fix the problem they both came to the table and re-wrote the contract. Neither side got everything they wanted, but both sides came away with a win. This is how the Labor/Management Relationship Program (LMRP) works. Hopefully we will return to this mindset.
Click to expand...


Thats total BS >> just like the BS that this is the last and best offer bullcrap that the union blew up our ass. If that was the case then the 05 would have never happened.

Wake up and smell the roses
 
So you think we could have done better? If memory serves me correct, within 11 months of the IBB signing the floor fell out of the world economy. From where I am standing we did better in IBB then what would have happened if we had turned it down and gone into section 6 with the '05 CBA. We would still be negotiating with no end in sight. A bird in the hand my brother.
 

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