NJ Pilots, what would you do?

[WheresRocky]

But face this possibility

Take a basic look at your job as a frac pilot and compare it to that of a NJ pilot. If you think that belonging to a strong union like 1108 will improve your situation then send in your card and vote for representation. If not, keep the status quo. Yes, it's a fundamental way of looking at things. A belief that it is possible to do something to improve your situation.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS SUCH

If that's a radical notion, then I'm guilty as charged, and apologize to no one.

Netjetwife:

Would you agree with the possibility there may be another way to improve on these issues without being unionized?

For instance, CS?

Or, is your RUFM up way the ONLY way to achieve better standard of living?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Netjetwife:

Would you agree with the possibility there may be another way to improve on these issues without being unionized?

For instance, CS?

Or, is your RUFM up way the ONLY way to achieve better standard of living?

Every company goes through a maturing cycle. Right now CS is still very much in the honeymoon stage. For the most part troops are happy, expansion is on the horizon, personal gain os put on hold becasue things are moving at a good clip and pay just got better... for some reason.

There WILL come a time when a line is drawn in the sand at CS between the employees and management. There always is a line after the company matures. The Christmas Parties give way to "Winter Gatherings" and X-Mas gifts from the company become used as bribes one year and gone the next.

Maturing employee groups happen at all companies. I assume you work for CS and good for you if you do. Enjoy your time working for a company that is able to satisfy the majority of the employees needs. NJA was also able to do that for many years until the injection of big money and mega growth.

It will happen at CS as well. CS is not some mutant. It is a company with humans as employees. This entire struggle comes down to those with big money and big egos and regular people trying to get by. Unfortunately there are casualties of war caught in the middle, like yourself, that just don't get it yet. It's ok. I can't blame you for ignorance. Your time will come. It always does.

 

[Fly High]

Wow! I never figured that a few simple questions from me while I was looking for some guidance/opinions would evolve/mutate into such a conversation. Is there a lot of this bickering at NJ?

 

[Diesel]

one word: no

 

[Flyingdog1]

Wow! I never figured that a few simple questions from me while I was looking for some guidance/opinions would evolve/mutate into such a conversation. Is there a lot of this bickering at NJ?

Yes, they griped for years while trying to get a contract. (deservidly so, it sucked over there til the new contract came in) But, they just do it out of habit now I guess. And to Mrs. Netjet, your husband will never be home enough nor will he make enough. Live with it, things could be worse. Who let the wives on anyway, go make your own thread.

 

[netjetwife]

Being willing to defend the belief that a strong union makes a big difference hardly constitutes "bickering". The negative posts are not from the NJ side. Our pilots offered to share info.

So, Dog, what would you know about my family life or our finances? The new contract justifies my husband's time away. That's all we had asked for--make it worth it. Although we think his skills are worth 90K now, we have decided the job is worth keeping.

There are pilots in other frac companies that are interested in unionizing. It's logical that the NJ group--pilots and their families--want to offer them encouragement and lend our moral support to a worthy cause.

As this thread was started to ask questions about NJA, it seems that I would know more about the lifestyle there than a pilot from a different company. I have followed the situation closely and I have a lot of insight. Furthermore, my husband makes an excellent resource, but I form my own opinions, as the NJ pilots will tell you... Interestingly enough, it was a Flex pilot that asked for my input on unionizing. Those who value well-informed, articulate responses are also willing to debate the issues with me. Those with hidden agendas try to insult me into leaving. I see nothing has changed in my absence.

 

[Fly High]

NJWife,

I am not barking up your tree, nor am I barking up the tree of anyone else. I am just trying to get a grasp on the conversation. I do not know if all who are "bickering" on this thread are from NJ or not. I am learning as I go.

 

[Humphreybogart]

one word: no

Are you seriously serious by answering the "bickering" question NO? NetJet pilots are notorious for bickering, belly aching, or being crybabies whatever you want to call it. Deisel must be new to this board to say NO. CitationShares didn't have to answer the NetJet pay raise by giving us even more money that NetJets got, but they did...that's what makes CS a premire player player in this fractional thing. Why didn't Flex or Options do the same? They are both good companies with great people but the NetJet TA did not affect them. NetJets may have an agreement for 5 years, which means they crying will start again in 4. CS pay scale will also be re-evaluated in 5 years and we'll still stay one step above NJ. Just the facts of life.

 

[Diesel]

Here's a fact. Check out my number of posts.... but yeah i'm new to this board.

Why is it that fighting for what you want labeled as whining? Oh that's right you must be a company shill that wants to spread the fact that if you whine and complain you are going to turn into a NJ pilot. Look accept the fact that CS keeps a very tight leash on you guys. That's fine.

Do you honestly think that CS raised your pay and it had nothing to do with us getting a raise? Do you honestly think that CS raised your pay because they are good guys? They raised your pay because doing that is a short term fix that will keep a union off property.

I personally don't care if you want a union or not. Why is it that when airline pilots are going through negotiations they are not considered whiners or complainers? Oh that's right they are allowed to upset the apple cart. We fought for a major increase in our quality of life. Bitch, whine, complain. Oh well it got me a nice fat bonus check yesterday.

 

[Guitar Guy]

We fought for a major increase in our quality of life. Bitch, whine, complain. Oh well it got me a nice fat bonus check yesterday.

Right on, Diesel. And enjoy that bonus check - my wife sure likes the one I got.

 

[CL300Pilot]

Are you seriously serious by answering the "bickering" question NO? NetJet pilots are notorious for bickering, belly aching, or being crybabies whatever you want to call it.

It appears to me that just about all pilots will complain and whine about anything. It is unfortunately a part of the type A personality.

 

[CL300Pilot]

Fly High...........

Wow! I never figured that a few simple questions from me while I was looking for some guidance/opinions would evolve/mutate into such a conversation. Is there a lot of this bickering at NJ?

Welcome to the wonderful world of thread highjacking.

 

[FLYLOW22]

CitationShares didn't have to answer the NetJet pay raise by giving us even more money that NetJets got, but they did...that's what makes CS a premire player player in this fractional thing. Why didn't Flex or Options do the same? They are both good companies with great people but the NetJet TA did not affect them.

Why didn't CS raise the bar for their boys in blue prior to the NJA TA then? You know, if they are such the major player.

Me thinks you are more of a widget than you are led to believe.

What kind of non economics did you get besides the money? You know, non economics... then things that feel good but people don't really talk about all that much. Scheduling, vacation, grievance, seniority rights, merger protections, scope and recognition, management rights, furlough and recall, training, moving expenses, sick leave with pay, life insurance, short term disability, long term disability (that measn you are paid when hurt), leave of absence, representation when in the office, etc.

Yeah sure. You guys got money. Are you really "one step ahead" of the NJA pilots though? You know... looking at the total package. I invite your group to truly raise the bar. It takes effort and "belly aching", time and sacrifice.

Not trying to knock what you guys have over there. You seem to have good a labor/management relationship from my perspective. Management commands and you do.

FLEX and FLO are absolutely affected by labor costs in the industry. FLO is financially on the ropes and taking life support payiments from it's parent to keep the lights on so a payraise is out. FLEX is just too damned stubborn if anything and if they don't watch it, will end up with a Union in house before you know it.

CS saw the writing on the wall. They needed to make the employees as CS happy with the minimum of expense and trouble. How is that done? MONEY. Cold, hard, ditry stinking money. It's easy to satisfy short term with lots of money but money ain't everything.

Sometimes you just need cuddle time too.

 

[RNObased]

Netjetwife:

Do you lead the Union radical fundamentalist movement? You all are almost like terrorists, pushing your beliefs, your radical pro-union viewpoints.

Ease off.

Well Rocky you are almost like an steet person..... Spewing crazy statements left and right to passers by... Yelling that the end is near, while under the influance of a bottle of Nighttrain.....

 

[Humphreybogart]

I know the NetJet TA had alot to do with why we got our raise. What I am saying is that CS did not HAVE to give us the raise, we didn't vote on anything, we were just handed a raise without anyone asking. Call it what you want, but I call it management appreciating what the pilots are doing, and giving them what management feels they deserve.

Am I wrong in assuming that the lump sum you NetJet guys got was NOT a bonus, however back pay from the time you guys/gals were in negiotiations?

 

[Diesel]

humphry how can you say you know that nj pilots got you your raise and then in the next sentance say that the company did it because they were good guys.

Which is it?

Oh yeah it was to keep the union off the property. Enjoy your schedule shift with no way to stop it from happening.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Does CS pay overtime and if so, how does it work? And does CS pay per diem, provide crew food or a combination of the two? Lastly, does CS do 401K matching?

Not trying to start a flame war, just curious how those things work at CS. I've heard rumors but I'd like to hear the info from the CS guys here.

 

[Humphreybogart]

humphry how can you say you know that nj pilots got you your raise and then in the next sentance say that the company did it because they were good guys.

Which is it?

Oh yeah it was to keep the union off the property. Enjoy your schedule shift with no way to stop it from happening.

The NetJet pilots did NOT get us a raise, unless some of your rank and file went to Greenwich and demanded one for the CS guys. We recieved our raise "inlight" of yours. Maybe I'm taking your statement too literal.

Guitar Guy, the answer is yes to all of your questions.

 

[Diesel]

So you don't think that NJ guys had anything to do with you getting a raise. CS did the smart thing and matched the pay right away to avoid all the crap that's going on at Flex and Flops. They knew the pilots would start rumbling.

While the answer may be yes to guitar's questions how about actually answering the question.

How much is OT on an hourly basis?
Do you get OT if you start work before 8am and how much?
Do you get OT if you start work before 8am and go past 9hrs of duty if so how much
do you get OT after 12 hours of duty? How much?
Crew food do you have to pay for it?
When is crew food provided or is it anytime the crew is hungry?
Does the crew have to pay for that food in any way or is it taken from perdiem in any way?
What is the Pay if you do not arrive home by 2400lcl on your last day?
Do then then take a day off of your next tour?
Did you ever get that schedule shift figured out where you lost a day or two of off time?

Those are the questions that really matter. We all know what NJ's rules are on the subject but CS tends not to have the same information out there. It would help a lot.

 

[Humphreybogart]

So you don't think that NJ guys had anything to do with you getting a raise.

The GUYS didn't, the UNION of the guys did. Did you or any of your buds go to Greenwich yourself for a face to face? I am glad your UNION got you the raise. Yes, it was a long time comming, but I am still glad to be at CS. Remember, money isn't everything, it's QOL and how you're treated by the powers above, and I think our "powers above" treat us very good. So good that we DON't have to pay union dues, but still get to reap your benefits. I am home every other weekend, no schedule swap during the weekends, big deal about shifting our schedule, at CS we're more team players and not complainers. I bet you pay alot more in union dues during the year than what we make for 1 day. Guitar Guy, overtime is 1.5 times our daily rate.