NJ and Cessna??

[BoilerUP]

Not sure what guaranteed orders you are talking about.

...the ones NJA would make if BRK bought a big piece of Textron...

 

[AvroJockey]

If it happens, it won't be the first time BH has done something were we say, "WTF?"

Interesting: What should we do to the fractional model to maintain profitability or (minimize losses) during time such as these. What else can be done to restore operational profitability without a change in demand?

The author suggests close ties with a particular manufacture...it's worked for Southwest. Now we won't ever have a single type, but Southwest doesn't own Boeing. Imagine if NetJets had some control of the products Cessna was making, that could directly impact the NetJets product. This could produce economies of scale advantages if unit cost goes down (especially when most of NJA's $$$ is made through aircraft sales), and increased infrastructure advantages with mission specific assets. Ponder, if you will, an 'Aspen' specific aircraft, or an 'Aspen' modified aircraft.

Discuss...

 

[AeroBoy]

Avro, I think you hit the nail on the head about what author Mike Reigel meant: BRK takes enough of a share in Textron where it gets say-so in engineering of new Cessna Citations to better meet fractional operations needs. Remember that Reigel worked for Flexjet when Flex was given a lot of input into the then-in-development Bombardier Challenger 300. I'd actually be interested in hearing Flex pilots' view of the Challenger 300 as it relates to this conversation.

 

[jonjuan]

Avro, I think you hit the nail on the head about what author Mike Reigel meant: BRK takes enough of a share in Textron where it gets say-so in engineering of new Cessna Citations to better meet fractional operations needs. Remember that Reigel worked for Flexjet when Flex was given a lot of input into the then-in-development Bombardier Challenger 300. I'd actually be interested in hearing Flex pilots' view of the Challenger 300 as it relates to this conversation.

http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/fractionals-evolution-in-action/


Further, Riegel is disappointed that the fractionals haven’t used their clout to force business aircraft manufacturers
to make products that are better suited for the fractional environment. “The fractionals need to inject themselves into an aircraft’s development stage. If they did, the resulting aircraft would be paradigm shifters,” he noted.

However, Riegel did praise Embraer for its Phenom 300, which he believes will be a great fractional airplane due to its performance and expected regional-airliner reliability. “Embraer’s approach to the market is good for fractional operators. It is targeting interesting segments, and the Phenom 300 will set the standard for fractional aircraft. This should be a real wake-up call for the established business aircraft OEMs.”

 

[clydefastly]

http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/fractionals-evolution-in-action/


Further, Riegel is disappointed that the fractionals haven’t used their clout to force business aircraft manufacturers
to make products that are better suited for the fractional environment. “The fractionals need to inject themselves into an aircraft’s development stage. If they did, the resulting aircraft would be paradigm shifters,” he noted.

However, Riegel did praise Embraer for its Phenom 300, which he believes will be a great fractional airplane due to its performance and expected regional-airliner reliability. “Embraer’s approach to the market is good for fractional operators. It is targeting interesting segments, and the Phenom 300 will set the standard for fractional aircraft. This should be a real wake-up call for the established business aircraft OEMs.”

I heard NJ did have some pull with cessna when it came to aircraft design. I thought cessna didn't put auto throttles or auto spoilers on the X because NJ didn't want to wait any longer for the development of such a system, or something like that. I tought that NJ would have the most pull or influence of any Frac company on aircraft design, and they have left their mark on a few models from Cessna. I could be wrong, but I think that is what I have heard at Flight Safety or Simuflite.

Also.. Cessna never seems to make an airplane that is designed to fly more than about 300 hours a year, so their dispatch reliability is weak.

 

[ozpilot]

In fairness to Cessna they build a Ferrari (Citation X) and Netjets runs them like New York Taxi cabs ....

 

[Dassault]

Buying Signature would make more sense.

 

[tdwnds1]

I have heard the "overlap" theory for years. I have issues regarding the synergy of NJ and Textron at this time. While a majority stake might have benefits down the road, at this time it really dosent make sense. I do think that some consolidation in the fractional industry in inevitable considering the current issues within the industry.

As for CS, it is apparent at this time that Textron is going to try to rebrand the company to make if profitable or at least stop the drain on its finances. If the new Citation Air by Cessna can be at least somewhat profitable in the on demand charter market (a similar model being used by XO Jet) it would be an accomplishment. I dont think at this time Textron is going to abandon or spin off CS unless the re-branding dosent work, but the next year will be very interesting for all the fractionals.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Buying Signature would make more sense.

This is certainly a possible scenario. At the very least, I believe Signature is being slimmed and pretty'd up for a sale. Look no further than the history of their current CEO. This has been his M.O. in the past: Come in with great promise of saving the company; cut cost to the bone (shrinking to profitability); then either sell the joint or part it out. It certainly isn't his understanding of a "customer service" business that gets him these jobs - he doesn't have a clue about caring for customers.

 

[sflax]

Who said CS was a drain on Textron. The last few townhalls have actually stated the CS is cash positive to the bottom line at Cessna and that the company is in a very good financial situation.

 

[tdwnds1]

I not going to contradict your information since I dont have any inside knowledge of what is going on, but...

You have gone through 2 or 3 rounds of furloughs at the company, I have never seen a company that was making money have mass layoffs of people. In additon, though CS might add to the bottom line at Textron (revenue), the larger company is still hurting. Ask the 55 percent of the workforce that has been laid off. Lastly, a "re-branding" means that the current business plan needs to be changed. Why would that happen if the company was profitable? You can still have lots of revenue without profits.

Dont get me wrong, I hope you guys are doing well and the company succeeds. Dont want to see anyone else out of work.

 

[BoilerUP]

You have gone through 2 or 3 rounds of furloughs at the company, I have never seen a company that was making money have mass layoffs of people.

UPS tried to furlough 300 pilots earlier this year...while still making a HALF BILLION in profit per quarter...

 

[sflax]

Why is bringing cost in line with revenues a bad thing, it is the right thing. So keeping people around, just b/c you make money is the moral thing in the social world. But if you want a business to succeed, people are cost. And when revenue goes down so must costs.

 

[FRACTRASH]

#1 we are cash positive at CS
#2 the re branding is just a way to reach more people who think shares is all we do.
#3 many very exiting changes coming, I don't want to say too much at this point, I'm not sure what's public info yet.
#4 I don't like to see it anywhere, because it effects us all. But, NJ is about 150 airplanes to fat right now in this market. You can only carry that much extra overhead and cost for so long, somethings got to give.

 

[Sparse]

.
#4 I don't like to see it anywhere, because it effects us all. But, NJ is about 150 airplanes to fat right now in this market. You can only carry that much extra overhead and cost for so long, somethings got to give.

Just curious where you got that statistic.