Nicolau Award

[NuGuy]

Chill dude...he's not even a US air guy. He is right however, you guys waved the winning lottery ticket in their faces and now your paying the price for it.

Exactly. It's the intractable positions on both sides that have made things what they are.

The arbitration isn't exactly like a gambling...you expect a fair outcome, unlike Vegas where you KNOW the house will win the end.

You guys and gals are like divorcees that are being be forced to live in the same house together. You can either choose to live together, which will require some wiggle room from both parties, or the place will wind up burning down.

The "bail out of ALPA" talk isn't that uncommon. Some DAL guys were spouting that during the NWA/DAL SLI. Just so happens that the AAA guys had the moxie and chutzpah to actually pull it off.

Fact of the matter is that enough guys voted that way because they're REALLY pissed off. That's NOT something that's going to be overcome overnight, or by throwing a few dollars at them.

So while the east side may shoulder a fair share, or even a majority of the blame, the west side isn't blameless. Quit standing around with the "who farted" look on your faces when you damn well know you had the beans, too.

BTW, if they're appealing to the 9th circuit, you can't bet on ANY outcome. They might wind up ordering all of you to fly in chicken suits for being such d-bags to each other.

Nu

 

[cactusboy53]

Heyas,

IMHO, as much as the east guys were poor losers, the west side have been poor winners.

Despite the fact that they were handed a lottery ticket by the arbitrator, which, frankly, was brought on by the east guys themselves, the west pilots have done nothing but inflame the situation from that day...dancing around and singing "we won we won we won, nanananana!", KNOWING full well the situation was unacceptable to the east guys.

Rather, they had an opportunity to be magnanimous in victory, be a little bit flexible, and work something out. They could have saved themselves some money, potential furloughs and made a small step from saving their airline from a death spiral. But like a child being told to share their toys, all we get is "No! I won! It's MINE!".

What's going to happen in this case is going to be the same. Some adult is going to get tired of listening to it, and take away the toys from BOTH children. Then the fun will be over...

Nu

Nu;
That lottery ticket has left 142 AWA pilots (that had jobs before this "merger") on the street. The time to be flexable was at the merger list negotiation and mediation talks, NOT after a percieved unfair award was handed down in final and binding arbitration. Further, if we were to touch ONE reed of that award "basket"....it changes that award's ability to stand unchanged. It also opens the door for all other final and binding awards.

We AWA pilots have been forced to take our "union" to court for failure to fairly represent a faction of the pilot group. We now continue to pay our own legal fees AND as members must help fund the legal team that is attempting to undo the award and change the list to a DOH/LOS list. The AWA pilot's have not "won", we simply presented our case. An Arbitrator, two pilot neutrals, a Federal Judge, and 9 jurors have seen this for what it is.

The time to move on as a group with the Nicolau Award is now here. It should have been here over two years ago. We should have had a new contract 12-18 months ago.

Will USAPA do what is legally required? I guess we'll see.

 

[m80drvr]

Chill dude...he's not even a US air guy. He is right however, you guys waved the winning lottery ticket in their faces and now your paying the price for it.

I'm quite chill actually. I do get upset when pilots who followed the rules are getting the shaft. You assume that th west pilots were dancing in the streets when the award came out. In fact, most were just happy that we did not get stapled to the bottom of the east list. We were happy with relative seniority. Some were ever upset that the east got the first 500 slots (I was not they have the 330s the west didn't, they can have them). There may have been a few vocal idiots on the west, BUT they only spoke up when when the east started to demand a do over.....The east has a couple of thousand integrity challenged pilots that have no problem reneging on therir agreement. Now they promise to appeal to the Supreme Court. You wonder why the west is pissed.

Keep on blaming the west though, if it makes you feel better.

 

[captairbusbb]

Heyas,

IMHO, as much as the east guys were poor losers, the west side have been poor winners.

Despite the fact that they were handed a lottery ticket by the arbitrator, which, frankly, was brought on by the east guys themselves, the west pilots have done nothing but inflame the situation from that day...dancing around and singing "we won we won we won, nanananana!", KNOWING full well the situation was unacceptable to the east guys.

Rather, they had an opportunity to be magnanimous in victory, be a little bit flexible, and work something out. They could have saved themselves some money, potential furloughs and made a small step from saving their airline from a death spiral. But like a child being told to share their toys, all we get is "No! I won! It's MINE!".

What's going to happen in this case is going to be the same. Some adult is going to get tired of listening to it, and take away the toys from BOTH children. Then the fun will be over...

Nu

NuGuy........just so you are very CLEAR on the MAGNANIMOUS victory, the west tried in vain to negotiate..EAST said "no way, DOH or the highway".

That lead to mediation...much like your divorce scenario in a later thread. The EAST said again.."no way, DOH or the highway".

That lead to arbitration...As has been beaten here to death, FINAL AND BINDING...Once again...East said "no way, DOH or the highway".

One final chance before Nicolau made his decision he told the EAST, DOH will not happen. Slezham and associates told Nicolau they were fine with their argument for DOH, and did not change their methodology or strategy for the FINAL and BINDING agreement.

The rest is history......The west was not and are still not dancing and singing around "we won we won we won".

The East got ********************ed and the west got ********************ed.....Nobody won.

The East only wants what is fair in their mind. And an arbitrator, two neutrals, Federal Judge and nine United States citizen jurors do not agree with the EAST entitlement and elitist mentality.

So......off to the 9th Circuit and then the Supreme Court. When will this lunacy end?.....When the USAPA minions and constituents see that Lee Slezham is becoming a rich man at their expense.

Let's just let it rest.

bb

 

[FDJ2]

Rather, they had an opportunity to be magnanimous in victory, be a little bit flexible, and work something out.

Nu, you don't get a mulligan, the time for working things out was prior to arbitration. The West is absolutely in the right to expect the award to be honored in its entirety. You don't get to throw a tantrum, just because you're a bigger group, and expect the smaller group to make concessions to an abusive majority.

 

[NuGuy]

Nu, you don't get a mulligan, the time for working things out was prior to arbitration. The West is absolutely in the right to expect the award to be honored in its entirety. You don't get to throw a tantrum, just because you're a bigger group, and expect the smaller group to make concessions to an abusive majority.

Heyas,

Well, that might be true in some perfect universe, but in fact, the east DID get to throw a tantrum, exactly because they were the bigger group, and they've gotten away with it up until this point.

In the meantime, their airline, for both east and west, is circling the crapper, because neither side felt like moving off their position.

It remains to be seen if, indeed, they're forced to do anything.

So yea, in a perfect world, judges and aribitrators are always right and fair, and people always play by the rules, and my flautus would always smell like cinammon buns and rainbows. Then we could all stand on our honor and principals and expect that fair play always ends up with the best result.

But you and I know this isn't a perfect world.

In this case, more pragmatic people might want to take charge of the situation. A majority of pissed off employees can do an awful lot to sink an airline out of spite....then what have you won? A pyrrhic victory, at best.

Nu

 

[Green]

Heyas,

IMHO, as much as the east guys were poor losers, the west side have been poor winners.

Despite the fact that they were handed a lottery ticket by the arbitrator, which, frankly, was brought on by the east guys themselves, the west pilots have done nothing but inflame the situation from that day...dancing around and singing "we won we won we won, nanananana!", KNOWING full well the situation was unacceptable to the east guys.

Rather, they had an opportunity to be magnanimous in victory, be a little bit flexible, and work something out. They could have saved themselves some money, potential furloughs and made a small step from saving their airline from a death spiral. But like a child being told to share their toys, all we get is "No! I won! It's MINE!".

What's going to happen in this case is going to be the same. Some adult is going to get tired of listening to it, and take away the toys from BOTH children. Then the fun will be over...

Nu

What a stupid post....

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Heyas,

Well, that might be true in some perfect universe, but in fact, the east DID get to throw a tantrum, exactly because they were the bigger group, and they've gotten away with it up until this point.

In the meantime, their airline, for both east and west, is circling the crapper, because neither side felt like moving off their position.

It remains to be seen if, indeed, they're forced to do anything.

So yea, in a perfect world, judges and aribitrators are always right and fair, and people always play by the rules, and my flautus would always smell like cinammon buns and rainbows. Then we could all stand on our honor and principals and expect that fair play always ends up with the best result.

But you and I know this isn't a perfect world.

In this case, more pragmatic people might want to take charge of the situation. A majority of pissed off employees can do an awful lot to sink an airline out of spite....then what have you won? A pyrrhic victory, at best.

Nu

Do you really believe the airline is circling the crapper because of this dispute between pilots? Isn't that a bit of a "pilot-centric" view of the world? The company has no intentions of deviating from the Nic list. They said so in federal court a few weeks ago. They're perfectly happy to exploit this situation to their advantage and they're laughing all the way to the bank.

In the absence of age 65, the junior east guys would be gaining upgrades from this situation. As it is, they're just stagnating (oh, and I guess preventing the big boogeyman they've created in their minds of hundreds of west guys bidding into PHL senior to them). The appeal process will be history by the time significant retirements kick in again and there will be a new union and/or a new contract by then so all the delay will be for naught. Pretty big $ to pay for an emotional arguement.

What's up with your fascination with flatulence?

 

[NuGuy]

What's up with your fascination with flatulence?

You're kidding, right? We're both on a message board that consists, intellectually speaking, of nothing but.

Nu

 

[eaglesview]

Do you really believe the airline is circling the crapper because of this dispute between pilots? Isn't that a bit of a "pilot-centric" view of the world? The company has no intentions of deviating from the Nic list. They said so in federal court a few weeks ago. They're perfectly happy to exploit this situation to their advantage and they're laughing all the way to the bank.

In the absence of age 65, the junior east guys would be gaining upgrades from this situation. As it is, they're just stagnating (oh, and I guess preventing the big boogeyman they've created in their minds of hundreds of west guys bidding into PHL senior to them). What's up with your fascination with flatulence?

You broke the code. The fact is, emotions aside, the east will make more in upgrades than any contract provide them with the nic. That's just simple mathematics. I'm not saying they are right in their actions but it's not hard to figure out why there is no effort on the east side to complete the merge.