Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

News story on SLI NWA and Delta

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

This is an old article. We have one more group of days for testimony (starting Monday) in LA, and then a decision will be given by Dec 8th, not Nov 20th as the article states.

NWA's lawyer represented USAir East in their arbitration, while our lawyer represented America West. Also, this is the first time NWA has advocated DOH. In the Republic merger, NALPA wanted a ratio list (I've got the testimony to prove it), but Roberts gave DOH with 20 year fences, and we know how fair that was.... With talks with Continental, NALPA also advocated ratios. This is the first time, since they are smaller, that they have wanted DOH. We will see how it goes....



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:
General L

We have received memo that NWA is looking

at a "dynamic list" not pure DOH.


Perhaps a blended list with considerations

for years of service, upcomming retirements?


I hope we get this done and put it behind us.

The 20 year fence re-opens bad wounds for 20

years.

DB
 
This is an old article. We have one more group of days for testimony (starting Monday) in LA, and then a decision will be given by Dec 8th, not Nov 20th as the article states.

NWA's lawyer represented USAir East in their arbitration, while our lawyer represented America West. Also, this is the first time NWA has advocated DOH. In the Republic merger, NALPA wanted a ratio list (I've got the testimony to prove it), but Roberts gave DOH with 20 year fences, and we know how fair that was.... With talks with Continental, NALPA also advocated ratios. This is the first time, since they are smaller, that they have wanted DOH. We will see how it goes....



Bye Bye---General Lee

The hearings actually started yesterday, and conclude on monday.
 
The hearings actually started yesterday, and conclude on monday.


Really? I thought they started on the 17th?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General L

We have received memo that NWA is looking

at a "dynamic list" not pure DOH.


Perhaps a blended list with considerations

for years of service, upcomming retirements?


I hope we get this done and put it behind us.

The 20 year fence re-opens bad wounds for 20

years.

DB

Well, a dynamic list would have to be done for both parties, because NWA's retirements in the short term are less in number than the DL retirements in the long term. That wouldn't really make sense, and people moving from one spot in the list to another, and then other people leap frogging them would be a logistical nightmare. Attrition has NEVER been used in any SLI, and that was stated on the stand.

I don't think there will be any long fences either. Delta doesn't want that, and probably is pushing for the shortest fences as possible.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Well, a dynamic list would have to be done for both parties, because NWA's retirements in the short term are less in number than the DL retirements in the long term. That wouldn't really make sense, and people moving from one spot in the list to another, and then other people leap frogging them would be a logistical nightmare. Attrition has NEVER been used in any SLI, and that was stated on the stand.

I don't think there will be any long fences either. Delta doesn't want that, and probably is pushing for the shortest fences as possible.

Bye Bye--General Lee

A dynamic list wouldn't be hard at all. NWA pilots would only fill NWA positions and DAL pilots would only fill DAL positions--indefinitely. You would always advance with attrition from your pre-merger list.

IE....
Former DAL pilots would always hold positions 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 12......
Former NWA pilots would always hold positions 2, 5, 7, 9, 10.....

It would be approx 7 DAL positions per 5 NWA positions and one would only move into those positions reserved for his/her list as attrition occurs. The designateed slots at the bottom of each list would expire with each retirement.

A concept such as this was discussed while working towards a negotiated settlement. Apparently, the arbitrators found it interesting enough that they left the floor open if any one was interested in introducing this concept as the arbitrated list would only consist of testimony from the arbitration process and not the mediated negotiations.

Schwanker
 
A dynamic list wouldn't be hard at all. NWA pilots would only fill NWA positions and DAL pilots would only fill DAL positions--indefinitely. You would always advance with attrition from your pre-merger list.

IE....
Former DAL pilots would always hold positions 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 12......
Former NWA pilots would always hold positions 2, 5, 7, 9, 10.....

It would be approx 7 DAL positions per 5 NWA positions and one would only move into those positions reserved for his/her list as attrition occurs. The designateed slots at the bottom of each list would expire with each retirement.

A concept such as this was discussed while working towards a negotiated settlement. Apparently, the arbitrators found it interesting enough that they left the floor open if any one was interested in introducing this concept as the arbitrated list would only consist of testimony from the arbitration process and not the mediated negotiations.

Schwanker

Did USAir East pilots get a Dynamic list? No, no they did not. Did they want one? Yes. Didn't your own lawyer represent them too? Yes, yes he did. I doubt you will get one. Where are all of those retirements you said would happen, anyway?

And, a negotiated settlement has NOT happen. I wonder why? The arbitrators are probably all ears when it comes to any idea, but that doesn't mean they have to start a new trend that has never been done before. We obviously didn't go for it, or there would have been a settlement. We probably gave good reasons why....probably because it always would divide the group. There would always be that "deal" in the backround. (Kinda just like the Roberts award and the 20 year fence krap)

Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:
Did USAir East pilots get a Dynamic list? No, no they did not. Did they want one? Yes. Didn't your own lawyer represent them too? Yes, yes he did. I doubt you will get one. Where are all of those retirements you said would happen, anyway?

And, a negotiated settlement has NOT happen. I wonder why? The arbitrators are probably all ears when it comes to any idea, but that doesn't mean they have to start a new trend that has never been done before. We obviously didn't go for it, or there would have been a settlement. We probably gave good reasons why....

Bye Bye---General Lee

You don't need to sell me anything on this board...your merger committee needs to sell your position to the arbitrators. Apparently, the arbitrators were receptive to the idea of a dynamic list. I'm not sure why you insist NWA is a USAir replica, but you know quite well NWA was not a failing enterprise which DAL rescued and you also know quite well the list awarded in that case is widely criticized by everyone except form AWA pilots. I sure hope you don't expect a repeat or you may end up in a severe depression.

Why is your sided against dynamic seniorty? It's because the attrition at NWA is much greater than DAL. I've looked at the crystal ball, and I fair much better under relative with dynamic than with DOH. This is strictly due to NWA attitrion. Everyone's mileage will differ depending on several variables (age, DOH, hiring patterns...). You like to preach DAL retirements are superior long term to NWA. If so, you should be in favor of the dynamic concept as well--but you're not. Wonder why? Fortunately, three wise men will give us a list in a few weeks. If you really have your hopes up for your slotted ratios, I know some good anti-suicide counselors who can help you out. It just isn't going to happen. When asked if placing 2008 hires ahead of 2000 hires was fair, you own DALPA rep couldn't even answer the question. You lost a lot of credibility with the arbitrators with DALPA's lopsided proposal. Truth will be shown soon enough. Take care.
Schwanker
 
Where are all of those retirements you said would happen, anyway?

Bye Bye---General Lee

BTW, you'll never see anywhere where I claimed there to be huge retirements prior to DCC. I read it as well, but I think there was some kool-aide drinking going on.

Back to USAir/AWA, is it your position this was a good SLI award? That's an easy yes/no question.

Also, do you equate NWA with USAir going into their merger? Another easy one.

Schwanker
 

Latest resources

Back
Top