News Flash - Pinnacle Requests Type IV in August

[xjjetdog]

Today on our way to GFK, we overhear a Pinnacle crew looking for a place to divert because of the weather in MSP. A requirement for their diversionary airport was if they had Type IV anti-ice fluid. They finally felt comfortable diverting all the way to GRB, because it was the only station that had Type IV in stock in August!!!! Someone in the Pinnacle training department needs to step and start teaching certain Pinnacle crews that Type IV fluid does not keep ice off the aircraft while enroute.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Who cares?

Feel better about yourself now?

 

[Captain X]

It's kinda funny though....like the time we heard all the guys diverting and entering holds b/c the visibility was "below mins." I had the FO ask center to call approach and ask what the RVR was -- above mins.

We led the pack in that day after passing everyone holding at the arrival gate.

 

[viper548]

Well you have to get the type 4 if you are going to fly thru clouds. J/K. Is there anyone around in Aug that can even run the de-ice truck?

 

[sballs]

its pinnacle whatwould you expect,

 

[Jumpseater]

Reserve pilot pissed at acheduling and "flying by the book"? Lets screw the company go way out of our way. I've done it at my last company. Seems kind of funny in august. Without all the info who knows what was going on.

 

[arthompson]

As far as the mins are concerned you folks need to realize that PCL is still Cat I, and has quite a few new (read High Mins) Captains.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I have a hard time believing the SOP's require diversion during summer based on type IV availability. Although, if they do, you can imagine what other nonsense is in there, and taught by non-pilots to boot...

 

[Way2Broke]

Who Cares?

 

[blackbox]

Who Cares?

exactly...

If it was any other airline, we wouldnt hear a word about it. And who knows if it's true, XJTboy might have made it up.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

exactly...

If it was any other airline, we wouldnt hear a word about it. And who knows if it's true, XJTboy might have made it up.

Where in this thread do you see an "XJTBoy" or any reference to XJT at all? The original poster obviously works for Mesaba.

 

[quartermile]

From a 9e dispatcher, nice try at flame bait.

 

[standaman]

Today on our way to GFK, we overhear a Pinnacle crew looking for a place to divert because of the weather in MSP. A requirement for their diversionary airport was if they had Type IV anti-ice fluid. They finally felt comfortable diverting all the way to GRB, because it was the only station that had Type IV in stock in August!!!! Someone in the Pinnacle training department needs to step and start teaching certain Pinnacle crews that Type IV fluid does not keep ice off the aircraft while enroute.

If it was a company policy then good for them. Who cares wether it makes sense or not in the middle of August. If the requirement is true then it exists for the safety of the passengers, aircraft, and crew. You can't just pick and choose what rules are valid today and what will be valid tommorrow. It's all or nothing in my opinion.

 

[CA1900]

If it was a company policy then good for them. Who cares wether it makes sense or not in the middle of August.

Are you telling me you'd feel 100% confident looking your 50 passengers in the eye, telling them that you diverted to BFE rather than somewhere reasonably close to their destination, because you couldn't find deicing fluid in the middle of the summer?

If the requirement is true then it exists for the safety of the passengers, aircraft, and crew. You can't just pick and choose what rules are valid today and what will be valid tommorrow. It's all or nothing in my opinion.

Safety? No. The requirement exists because the bureaucrat who wrote the manual didn't think it through, and an illogical rule is in the book. Bring it to the airline's attention (I'm sure this incident will), and it'll get corrected. Don't hide behind safety when you know that's a crock.

This isn't a question of "picking and choosing" rules. This is a question of using your brain and your background of knowledge to apply them appropriately. Here's an example: When my window heat won't test on an airplane that's parked in the sun, my knowledge and experience tells me that it's because the glass is already above the thermostat cutout temperature. My checklist makes no mention of it -- it simply says to check that it turns on.

By your logic, I should write up and ground the airplane and strand the passengers until a suitably cool piece of $20,000 glass can be located and installed? No. I use my brain and realize that it isn't a safety issue, just as the lack of Type IV in August isn't.

I swear there should be a day dedicated to logic and reason in every airline's indoc.

 

[standaman]

I'm not totally disagreeing with you CA1900, the rule is bogus. Maybe my response was poorly written. But still the crew did what they were suppposed to do. That is my point. I would agree that whoever wrote the book did not think it through. Thats not the crews fault. I also agree with you that they did not have to divert to someplace in the middle of August just to find Type VI. I would feel safe going anywhere. Thats me using common sense. But if the company says that you have to have Type VI in the middle of August then I will do it. I would be okay telling that to my passengers. It's not my airplane it is the companies. If thier definition of safety happens to differ from mine they win. I still have to defend the flight crew. They did what they were supposed to do according to thier company.

 

[rk772]

That was 5 minutes of my life that I'll never get back!!!

 

[arthompson]

The key thing to remember here is that this *NEVER* happened. I work in the PCL SOC and there is no record of this happening. If you truly believe it did happen then you need to provide a FLG flight so it can be verified!

 

[jackbo]

The key thing to remember here is that this *NEVER* happened. I work in the PCL SOC and there is no record of this happening. If you truly believe it did happen then you need to provide a FLG flight so it can be verified!

when each dispatcher is working 25 flights at a time, it is pretty hard to keep track of everything that is going on.

why can pinnacle pilots not think for themselves? atc tells you to turn leaving dca and you say "no i need to stay on this heading." two violations in one day. that is something to be proud of.

can the captains over there make logical decisions instead of acting like robots?

CELL CALL! you're an idiot!

 

[TonyC]

CELL CALL! you're an idiot!

It's SEL CALL.


(For SELective CALL.)







.

 

[PCL_128]

when each dispatcher is working 25 flights at a time, it is pretty hard to keep track of everything that is going on.

I'm pretty sure that a dispatcher would remember whether his flight diverted because of an icing issue in the middle of August. Like arthompson said: never happened.

why can pinnacle pilots not think for themselves? atc tells you to turn leaving dca and you say "no i need to stay on this heading." two violations in one day. that is something to be proud of.

The violations in DCA were not solely belonging to Pinnacle. According to the FAA, these violations were happening frequently to every regional and major airline that flies into DCA. If you want to talk P56 violations, then you'll have to include everyone. I can assure you that we all can think for ourselves when needed.

CELL CALL! you're an idiot!

Actually, it's SELCAL, not "Cell Call." It's not a wireless phone call, its a "Selective Call" message. I would explain exactly what that means to you, but I'm sure your feeble mind couldn't understand it anyway. Go back to bouncing around the virtual skies in MS2004 and let the big boys handle the airline talk. I think your mommy's calling you for your bedtime story anyway. Nighty-night numbnuts.

 

[Rook]

Yeah I really wanted to divert to BRD but all the alcohol was already used up and the patio furniture was gone. (Never thought a senior XJ 146 CA would stoop that low.)

Night guys,
Rook

 

[xjjetdog]

I also agree with you that they did not have to divert to someplace in the middle of August just to find Type VI.

How much do you think a spraydown with Type VI ????? goes for these days? Although, with Type VI you can probably apply it in August and it will stay on the airplane till Groundhog Day.

 

[crjgearbiatch]

How much do you think a spraydown with Type VI ????? goes for these days? Although, with Type VI you can probably apply it in August and it will stay on the airplane till Groundhog Day.

Maybe Mesaba is approved for Type VI fluids, but I'm not aware of Type VI existing... don't see a holdover chart for it. I am most familiar with Type I and Type IV. However, I am impressed by the 6+ month holdover time of the Type VI fluid. Maybe Pinnacle should look into that...

If your post wasn't pure flamebait, it's quite possible that there is a logical reason for the divert, and maybe you didn't catch all of the details.

I don't believe that anyone diverting in August would consider the necessity of an alternate airport having deicing capability. However, I can see a situation where a CRJ might divert to avoid icing conditions. (i.e. window heat controller or wing anti ice system deferred, gear down ferry, etc..) Why don't you just stick to your 4 APU's and a Hairdryer... and we'll handle the Canadair.

Next time you ride in one of our airplanes, feel free to come up and read our MEL.

 

[xjjetdog]

Maybe Mesaba is approved for Type VI fluids, but I'm not aware of Type VI existing... don't see a holdover chart for it. I am most familiar with Type I and Type IV. However, I am impressed by the 6+ month holdover time of the Type VI fluid. Maybe Pinnacle should look into that...

If your post wasn't pure flamebait, it's quite possible that there is a logical reason for the divert, and maybe you didn't catch all of the details.

I don't believe that anyone diverting in August would consider the necessity of an alternate airport having deicing capability. However, I can see a situation where a CRJ might divert to avoid icing conditions. (i.e. window heat controller or wing anti ice system deferred, gear down ferry, etc..) Why don't you just stick to your 4 APU's and a Hairdryer... and we'll handle the Canadair.

Next time you ride in one of our airplanes, feel free to come up and read our MEL.

Maybe I should have spelled it out in my post, type SIX. That was the joke. You're right, my second post was flamebait. The original was a first hand account. But I'll cut you some slack, it was late and Roman numerals are compicated. I don't blame you, rather the Memphis pulic education system. Also, if anti-ice fluid is part of a MEL for a inop window heat controller/wing anti-ice system, then this thing really does belong in Canada..........ehhhh?

 

[TonyC]

I don't blame you, rather the Memphis pulic education system.

Hey, hey, HEY!

My diploma says Memphis on it!

Oh, wait... Memphis Public schools.... you said pulic... oh, never mind, different schools




.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

There is a sucker born every minute, and there are a lot of them that hang out on this board.

There is no requirement at PCL to divert only to stations that have type IV..ever. In fact a lot of the airports that we fly into don't even have type IV.

Becides the fact that the story is totally unreasonable, and no one else can confirm it, and it's been a while since a PCL bashing thread, this one is pure BS.

 

[NuGuy]

The violations in DCA were not solely belonging to Pinnacle. According to the FAA, these violations were happening frequently to every regional and major airline that flies into DCA. If you want to talk P56 violations, then you'll have to include everyone. I can assure you that we all can think for ourselves when needed.

Heyas guys,

I saw a bulletin on the wall about how anal retentive the feds are about the DC airspace. Word is that if you depart with the wrong transponder code (gee, I've never done that...), they will consider this a "deviation" and come after the crew.

FYI...

Nu

 

[Simon Says]

Yeah I really wanted to divert to BRD but all the alcohol was already used up and the patio furniture was gone. (Never thought a senior XJ 146 CA would stoop that low.)

Night guys,
Rook

hehehehe......That was a grand slam comeback....I usually don't chime in on 9E vs. XJ tennis match, but this come back was out of the park.....LOL

before you get flamed by my bretherens at Mesaba the Avro Captain event was a different situation in Grand Forks. The patio furniture was just the BRD event.

 

[405]

Hmmm...

Today on our way to GFK, we overhear a Pinnacle crew looking for a place to divert because of the weather in MSP. A requirement for their diversionary airport was if they had Type IV anti-ice fluid. They finally felt comfortable diverting all the way to GRB, because it was the only station that had Type IV in stock in August!!!! Someone in the Pinnacle training department needs to step and start teaching certain Pinnacle crews that Type IV fluid does not keep ice off the aircraft while enroute.

This is stupid.

9E had no diversions to GRB yesterday and have had no diversions to GRB within the last five days. We had one diversion yesterday. The only ARJ flight that I know of to GFK landed 2 hours and 45 minutes before that diversion flight originated in MSP.

 

[mike51135]

CELL CALL! you're an idiot!

Interesting, I didn't know that they installed a cellular telephone in the CRJ cockpit. I learn many things by reading this board...

Maybe Pinnacle had cell phones installed on all A/C so we could call up the hotel on overnights to make sure there are no drunk Mesaba pilots running around yelling, knocking on doors and throwing patio furniture. If I know ahead of time, I will be more alert and can duck when a flying patio chair comes flying towards me by a wasted Mesaba pilot.