Newhire CAL Pilots

[FlyBoeingJets]

What are you in hock up to your ass? I have 3 kids (2 in diapers) 1 awesome wife, a house, a car, and food and it works out fine. I think you really are doing this for flame bait.

Oh well your myopic loss is someone else's gain...unless you in your late 40's or 50's I could understand...but 30's...no excuse...

Yeah and you are paying your dues again...just like every major hurdle in life

You want good candidates and you can't give them decent pay and health insurance???

That doesn't make sense.

You don't really want quality candidates, you want desperate folks with nowhere else to go.

Good luck finding (quality) folks to fill the classes after you run out of the beat up, desperate ones.

The dudes I know who interviewed at CAL during the last year either didn't accept the job or left ASAP.

CAL is a good place to start in your 20's or unmarried 30's. You know that is what the company wants.

 

[catIIIc]

I agree with pkober, first year pay sucks and not having insurance sucks even more, I felt like a second class citizen at the hospital or doctors office, but my wife has a great job as a contractor,(no benifits) and we can make it work. First year pay sucks at just about everywhere so you suck it up if it is where you want to be. If you can't make it work do not come here, there are plenty of people wanting to come so I don't think CAL will have trouble filling classes.

To echo what Patriot said, you can fly as much as you want , or as little as you want. This may change with PBS but the first line it built me was 88 hours, so I am experimenting with this mock bid to see if I can get a few more days off and fly a little less. We will see tomorrow if it works out.

Overall CAL is a great place to be, I only had to sit reserve for three months after IOE and that was in IAH, so movment is pretty good right now. Barring any mergers or WWIII, which by the way is starting, things should be pretty good.

Good luck to us all

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Barring any mergers or WWIII, which by the way is starting, things should be pretty good.

Good luck to us all

Let me just slide that in here quietly, nobody will notice. Dum da dum. Nothing to see here.

 

[catIIIc]

I know I wrote that and I hope the Middle East thing will settle down but it may get worse before it gets better

 

[GogglesPisano]

First year pay at any airline isn't "paying your dues". It's the senior guys writting a contract and then not caring about the newhires.


CLAMBAKE

Someone has seen the light.

First year pay at a major airline is still paying dues? What was I doing financing my own flight training after college, flight instructing, 135, slinging gear in a CRJ, adding type-ratings at a company with a horrendous bust-rate, and sleeping in crashpads all those years? Must have been making just a downpayment.

 

[SOVT]

What are you guys doing for the first year with Health Ins? I had to turn CAL down and head somewhere else. I looked hard for cheap Ins. but the pay at CAL the first year, 6 months of me funding the INS, 3 Kids, 1 crazy Wife, House, Car, and food it just didn't work....

What are you guys doing for the first year?

Thanks

I suppose that it's all a matter of perspective. I was hired by Piedmont (the original) which at the time had a five year "B" scale. It took me five years to reach the same pay scale that I will have as a second year CAL pilot. So, the first year pay at CAL isn't such a big deal to me.

As far as getting thru the first year,it was tough. I'm 52 with a big house (paid for) lots of land (also paid for) that’s the good part. The bad - five digit property taxes, wife & three young kids two old vehicles that need repairing on a regular basis. You mentioned food, my 14 year old is a human eating machine. How did we do it. First, we went into this with zero debt. Second, we opened a line of credit on the house for emergencies. Third we set up a monthly maturity schedule from our savings, a $1000 cd maturing each month. Fourth, until now we never had a family budget, we do now. Prior to buying anything that could be considered a non-necessity, we waited 24 hours prior to buying. As far As the health insurance is concerned, CAL makes available a low cost high deductible plan. I did not take advantage of this however. The state I live in has a great plan for women and children, about $75 a month. I am covered by the VA because of service connected issues.

The toughest part of the first year is not blowing the budget on all the great food and drink that Europe has to offer. As a lineholder on the 756 after six months, life is good. So, I suppose the decision not to consider CAL is a personal one, but having been around the business for a lot of years, you need to remember that the first year will go by in a blink of an eye.

 

[seahorse]

The first year pay at CAL is completely unacceptable. Making $25K and also having to pay for your own health insurance is a slap in the face.

I don't want to hear any shiit from other posters on here about "paying dues." I have literally bled through all my cash, and I don't think there are any first year CAL pilots who aren't living negative, unless they are living in a cardboard box.

I don't think the first year pay has changed for over 10 years. Meanwhile inflation and everything else has gone way up.

The ironic thing is that most of the senior guys don't seem to care. They don't really give a shiit at all. This is probably what concerns me even more. In fact, I can't even remember any of them buying a round on the overnights. Not that I expect them to, but I sure as Helll did many times where I used to work.

Like one of the other posters said, you are treated like a baby the first year, with each Captain you fly with having to fill out a "probationary report" on you and turning it in to the Chief Pilot (no joke).

There are also some very substandard work rules in the contract. I'm talking about work rules that you wouldn't even see at a commuter airline.

Hopefully there will be positive changes in 2008.

 

[MECH]

The first year rate has changed in the last ten years. We took a 9% pay cut along with Contract 02. I have Captains try to tell me how tough it was when they started 30 years ago at 15,000 to 20,000 a year. You just have to smile and grit your teeth. So look to left and thank the captain next to you, for allowing the profession to sink a little lower!

 

[densoo]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TLrBqy4Kh9Y&search=things%20have%20changed%20dylan

 

[freeflyer14]

No one really ever mentions CLE... is it junior or senior, just curious.

 

[Patriot328]

No one really ever mentions CLE... is it junior or senior, just curious.

What's CLE?

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

My wife and two young kids and I are all living with my inlaws. It's not fun. I just hit my six month mark and got health insurance. Myself, wife, and daughter were on the $1000 deductible short term insurance for around $305/month and my son was on Cobra for $232/month because of a pre-existing condition the short term plan wouldn't cover. So from $537/mo we are now down to $124/month with Continental's health plan. That's like a $400 pay raise.

Like everyone said, the pay extremely sucks. I took a $50,000 pay cut but made the decision to come here knowing I have 27 years left in the industry. In six months I should be almost back to what I was making before. Until then it sucks and we will survive. We saved up a bit last year so we have a small cushion but we only get by by living with the inlaws. I've met only one other CAL newhire that has kids and a wife that stays at home. He does it by taking out a huge home equity loan to live off. Everyone else can seem to only do it by having the wife work, not having kids, being single, and/or having the guard.

Check out AirlinePilotPay.com. It'll show that most of the other airlines have crappy first year pay, Southwest and Fedex excluded. But other than these two CAL is the only one hiring. The one thing I vow to do is to push hard for CALALPA in the next and all future contracts to provide a livable wage to first year pilots. Even $40/hr and medical from day one is just a starting point.

 

[Patriot328]

The one thing I vow to do is to push hard for CALALPA in the next and all future contracts to provide a livable wage to first year pilots. Even $40/hr and medical from day one is just a starting point.

AMEN.


FWIW, 15-20K in 1983 was more than 30K in 2005 (let alone 2006 with increased gas prices)

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

There are also some very substandard work rules in the contract. I'm talking about work rules that you wouldn't even see at a commuter airline.

Tell us more...

 

[Patriot328]

Tell us more...

Junior manning? WTF?

Movable days off? WTF? If you're off, you are OFF

Getting called early on an overnight and having to come in before show time? WTF?

Block in past 1am going into an off day.. you don't get a comp day off with pay? WTF?

No Ins for 6mos? WTF?

24 hrs off in 7 days can count as rest? No calander day off in base? (That's not a WTF if you want to stack your work days in a row, but it can be abused)

What's up with min duty free time in base... it's short... (shorter than where I worked before)..


FBJ, I'm not saying CAL isn't a better place to work for long term (it is better than any regional), but I will tell you that there are some things in the contract that are horrible from a QOL aspect and I was surprised to learn that my old regional airline contract was superior in many ways.

I will also say that I've experienced nearly zero of the above, but some of my cohorts on the 737 haven't been as lucky.

 

[bearcat]

Oh man.... not paying dues. If you don't think civilian guys pay their dues your A-10 Helmet must be on too tight. We don't get the Mil leave option, pay, pension or the rest of it. But from the tone of your post, you think you're a notch above everyone else, so I doubt you pay attention to what's going on around you anyway. I seriously doubt there are too many people actually being offered a job at a major and turning it down because of first year pay. All hail the great and wise Bearcat.

I'm sorry that you have a small penis!

 

[LJDRVR]

Oh man.... not paying dues. If you don't think civilian guys pay their dues your A-10 Helmet must be on too tight. We don't get the Mil leave option, pay, pension or the rest of it. But from the tone of your post, you think you're a notch above everyone else, so I doubt you pay attention to what's going on around you anyway. I seriously doubt there are too many people actually being offered a job at a major and turning it down because of first year pay. All hail the great and wise Bearcat.

Where did he claim to be a notch above everybody else? Where did he say civilian guys doidn't pay their dues? What's with the axe to grind?

The reason you don't get MIL Leave or a retirement benefit is that you chose not to serve. Those who volunteer to risk their lives for the rest of us get compensated to do it. FedEx even pays the difference if you're going to lose money on you drill wekend. That's how it should be. Nobody was stopping you from joining up.

Sorry Bro, but you're the one who comes across with an attitude.

 

[MJG]

CLE is I think fairly senior I believe. Don't think any new hires are getting CLE out of training but seems that those that want to get to CLE can do so within about a year or so. All 737 base, no other options.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I'm in a slightly different situation since I'm single with no kids. However, I did find a few ways to maximize cash flow. First, was to boost the number of allowances on my W-4 so that no Federal or State taxes are withheld. I started at the end of April and my RJ Captain salary for the first 4 months of the year was enough to have more than enough taken out for Federal and State to cover my whole 2006 worth of taxes. And then I dropped my 401k deduction to 0. And of course, no union dues and no health insurance deduction for the first 6 months. So all that is taken out is FICA/Medicare/NJ SDI, etc. Bottomline is that about 10% of my pay check is now deducted for that stuff so I am taking home 90% of the gross as well as any tax-free per diem. All in I am netting roughly $3000 per month flying about 95 hours per month (that is on reserve). Not great but pays the mortgage and my bills. I had a nice nest egg built up going in but it looks like if I keep this up I won't dip into the red at all.

As for health insurance, I just purchased a 6 month short term plan with a high deductible for about $500 total.

-Neal

 

[CaptainSpaz]

Let me bring a slightly different perspective to this thread.

Having not had the vision req for military aviation, and bad timing for the regionals, I took the corporate and 135 route. In doing this, I have:

1) Flown with some of the most dangerous pilots this business has to offer. I probably have more honest answers for the "Tell me about a time..." question than you would even believe. And that would be just counting the times in my first year.
2) Overnighted in hotels that make airline low standard hotels look like Buckingham Palace.
3) Had no choice but to eat fast food or vending for breakfast, lunch AND dinner on way too many days.
4) Been threatened with unemployment if I did not fly over duty.
5) Been threratened with unemployment if I did not take an airplane that needed to be grounded for MX.
6) Worked over 25 days in one month.

I have so much more where that came from. All that being said, I am pretty darn sure I have paid my dues.

But still...

If CO calls tomorrow and wants me to show up for an interview, am I going to go? Better believe it.

If CO offers me a job, am I going to take it? In a heartbeat.

Should the first year be a better deal? Absolutely.

But IMHO, if CO were to raise the first year standards up alot, they should also raise their firm hiring minimums, as well.

Just a different perspective, please nobody get your shorts in a wad. I never said regionals wasn't paying dues. And military service goes without saying.