New Virgin Pay Rates

[Flyer1015]

Confirmed for dumbest poster in FI history.

I'm not even the biggest fan of either of these carriers, but Spirit's future is much brighter than Virgin's....

Best of luck though, bro.

Those were some true facts. It isn't the first time ALPA sold out their junior pilots to gain more on the senior side. History repeats itself. But it is fact: Spirit not only cut first year pay down to 38.50, it also stays there the entire duration for first year. I never stated that Spirit's future was better or worse than anyone else. You drew your own conclusion on that one.

 

[I_Love_Lamp]

Those were some true facts. It isn't the first time ALPA sold out their junior pilots to gain more on the senior side. History repeats itself. But it is fact: Spirit not only cut first year pay down to 38.50, it also stays there the entire duration for first year. I never stated that Spirit's future was better or worse than anyone else. You drew your own conclusion on that one.

How many years do you spend on first year pay? How many years do you spend on 2+ year pay?

There's your answer, sparky.

 

[blackbox]

100% correct! Start-ups cannot afford to pay pilots an industry standard wage. For proof you can see that they pay only 1/3 the rate for landing fees. 1/4 the rate for de-icing fluid; catering only charges 75% of the normal rate. The insurance company only charges 80% for policies and the lawyers work for minimum wage. Management gets terrible compensation with no stock options either! It's just life at a start-up. Everyone pulls for less. If you find I am wrong with my numbers, do you think industry level pay for pilots should be a cost of doing business or should pilots be singled out to bear a large portion of the cost to get the airline profitable? I dont see the lawyers or insurance company taking less than what their expertise is worth.

I see what you are getting at, however Labor costs are the only things that are within the company's control. When an airline files BK, wages are cut, manning is reduced etc..., but I am pretty sure landing fees, de-ice fluid, catering are still same price for BK airlines as they are for ones making money. If you lose your job, and barely getting by on an unemployment check, McDonalds still cost you the same. However you can give your child a smaller allowance. Its the only thing you have control over.

Plus no one has answered my question of Jetblue's first payscale. Or any other airlines for that matter.

 

[NEDude]

When my airline went through the bankruptcy process, the lead-up to which looked eerily similar to what you guys are going through right now BTW, I started learning everything I could about airline financials.

So no, I'm not a financial expert. I can read. I know my way around Form 41 data and the BTS website, however. I also know how to go to virginamerica.com, then click about us, then click press releases, then click the appropriate link. You should try all of those things, put down the glass, then let me know if you arrive at a different conclusions than I have. Just because I'm not telling you what you want to hear or that you don't like my posts doesn't necessarily mean that I'm lying or trying to BS anyone.

Been furloughed three times and my last company just shut down the doors a few days ago, I am pretty familiar with what a troubled airline looks like. VX doesn't look anything like that.

I don't know what you are trying to convince me of. Perhaps that I should leave because VX might be in trouble in the future based on what you are reading? Or is it that I should not take a pay raise when offered? Please explain it to me. Because of having been through those three furloughs and watching one of my former employers die, I know from experience no airline job is entirely secure, not one. Several friends here at VX thought their job at UAL or USAirways was secure. There are 100+ UPS guys who felt their job was secure as well. Yes, VX could be gone in a year or two, but it could also have gone public and have lots of money on hand. I am here to ride it out, and so far it has been very beneficial to me financially and I am enjoying the ride. So please explain to me what you think you are going to convince me of or what it is you are trying to get me to do.

 

[ASADFW7]

First pay scales need to be adjusted for inflation to today's dollars to be a fair comparison. That is hard to do.

 

[Flyer1015]

How many years do you spend on first year pay? How many years do you spend on 2+ year pay?

There's your answer, sparky.

That's exactly the mentality that has screwed the junior side. I still can't believe people find it acceptable to take a bottom barrel first year wage and justify it that "it gets better.". No wonder Continental was able to get away with 29.97/HR first year and no medical for 6 months! Dumb people like you would work for free at a major your first year.

It doesn't matter how long you're on first year pay. It still doesn't change the fact that, as usual, first year pay was sold out to gain for the senior side.

 

[blackbox]

First pay scales need to be adjusted for inflation to today's dollars to be a fair comparison. That is hard to do.

I am not asking you to compare it to VX. I am asking you to compare it to the other established airlines of its time.

 

[727C47]

The rationalization the VA guys go through on this thread is amazing. But hey, if that keeps you going every day........more power to you.

Regardless, it is a pay raise your airline can't afford to pay and is hastening the inevitable. But I guess when you have 150M of other people's money to burn through, it's no skin off your management's nose.

When are the 2011 4th quarter numbers coming out? I haven't read anything from your airline stating when they will be posted.

Since when is united guy criticizing anybody?

 

[ualdriver]

Been furloughed three times and my last company just shut down the doors a few days ago, I am pretty familiar with what a troubled airline looks like. VX doesn't look anything like that.

Yup, you're right. My mistake. Silly me. I always get my positive and negative numbers mixed up when I read airline financial publications! VA is in great financial shape!

 

[ualdriver]

Since when is united guy criticizing anybody?

Well, it's been at least since that post you quoted.