New rules to obtain ATP.

[wms]

What exactly prevents airlines from hiring a pilot with ATP mins and providing all the required training?

Nothing.

 

[Twisted Mind]

Here is the AC on what is required.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-138.pdf

 

[Twisted Mind]

And the final rule.

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/2120-AJ67.pdf

 

[IBNAV8R]

Ok the FAA has changed the training, testing, experience, and fatiuge requirements. If a pilot fails a checking event they are placed under a special observation program. You claim none of this will work. In your opinion what will work?

PRIA and special tracking have my support - to a point. At some point, one should be able to overcome past failures - 3 years? 5 years?

But, the issue is allowing weak pilots to progress. Renslow had had several failures but continued to fly. I don't know anyone at Colgan but my guess is this particular captain probably had a reputation among the other pilots. Sim time, rest, flight time rules, ground training or whether the FO had an ATP made absolutely no difference.

While I'm utterly against using FDR/CVR data for disciplinary action, a plethora of FOQA-triggered events might also provide a clue about someone who shouldn't be here.

 

[livin'thesim]

If the regionals are not able to find a sufficient number of pilots who have an ATP, they will simply have to build into the initial new hire course all of the additional items that a 142 school would have to provide.

Probably add four or five days to the ground school. Sim training would be largely the same.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Wasn't the Colgan crash really just the result of letting a pilot with marginal skills move up the ranks?

Just like giving passing grades to failing high school students, sometimes you have to tell someone that the left seat, and in fact the flight deck might not be the right job for them.

I would say in my substantial years as a sim instructor, I have run into two or three high time captains that really should be in another line of work. They just don't have the flight deck mindset.

Probably a combination of that...and fatigue...

 

[bailout]

What exactly prevents airlines from hiring a pilot with ATP mins and providing all the required training?

Nothing.

If the regionals are not able to find a sufficient number of pilots who have an ATP, they will simply have to build into the initial new hire course all of the additional items that a 142 school would have to provide.

Probably add four or five days to the ground school. Sim training would be largely the same.

Nope, the required training has to be done OUTSIDE of any air carrier.

 

[Andy Neill]

Nope, the required training has to be done OUTSIDE of any air carrier.

I'm not seeing that in the previously posted references in this thread. Can you cite the paragraph stating this?

 

[Flying Ninja]

Rumor has it the 6 hours (of 10 required) in the Level C or D sim for the new ATP rule will run up to $1000 per hour. Enjoy. That.

 

[bailout]

I'm not seeing that in the previously posted references in this thread. Can you cite the paragraph stating this?

OK, I wasn't entirely correct from what I heard, but this is what I found in the rule. Basically it says that an air carrier can offer the course, but it cannot be part of initial or new hire training and therefore must be separate. Since the airlines are not in the business to offer 'flight training' and lack the personnel, I doubt any of them will offer such a course, they will just send them to FlightSafety, but either way, it won't be free to the new hire.

To those commenters that suggested the ATP CTP be incorporated into air carrier initial training because the subjects are already taught or because the training only applies to pilots in part 121 operations, the FAA disagrees. The ATP CTP is the base upon which a pilot must build. The concepts in the course will apply to any pilot who flies a large turbine aircraft regardless of
operating rule part and therefore has value to pilots flying outside of part 121. The ATP CTP will cover topics the air carrier is not required to teach. For those general knowledge areas that are currently part of a part 121 initial training program, the FAA has modified subpart N to remove those requirements and reduce ground training for those pilots who have completed the ATP CTP. A pilot in an air carrier training program receives training specific to the air carrier?s operation and the specific aircraft that pilot is going to fly. Even if the subjects are offered by an air carrier in initial training, the pilot is focused primarily on learning the company operation and the specific type of aircraft they will fly, not on broader, foundational concepts that the ATP CTP
is designed to provide.

2. Training Providers
Due to the FSTD requirement in the ATP CTP, the FAA proposed that the course be
conducted only by the following certificate holders who are approved to sponsor an FSTD under
14 CFR part 60: a part 141 pilot school, a part 142 training center, or a part 119 certificate holder
authorized to conduct operations under parts 121 or 135.

Although part 121 and part 135 operators may elect to offer this training for their pilots, it would remain separate from part 121 and part 135 training requirements. Because the proposed ATP CTP is part of the basic certification requirements for an ATP certificate, air carriers who elect to offer this training would be required to provide the course to their pilots prior to beginning initial training.