New Rest Rules tomorrow, 12/21/11

[RJ Bum]

nevermind....

 

[PCL_128]

Sounds good on paper but there is no way to implement a rule like that. 10 hours is a step in the right direction though.

The rule already says how it's implemented. If you get to your hotel room and you have less than 8 hours until van departure, then all you have to do is call Crew Scheduling on their recorded line, tell them that you just got to your room, and your 8 hours starts right then. Huge improvement.

 

[Dan Roman]

What is does allow is LAX-HNL-LAX in one day.

If your serious, no it does not, unless of course you are talking about using Concorde's.

 

[atpcliff]

Any insight as to what this means for staffing levels at airlines?

Under the previous proposed rules (somewhat different than these), I read a CAL poster who said CAL would require about 15% more pilots.

 

[atpcliff]

I work for Atlas, and like World, for example, we fly both PAX and cargo.

So, how is it going to work when we fly both. For example, this week I have a freight trip, followed by a PAX trip. There is no mention of how this is to be implemented, because the FAA is only thinking about DAL/FedEx, and not airlines like mine...

cliff
RMS

 

[Lear70]

The rule already says how it's implemented. If you get to your hotel room and you have less than 8 hours until van departure, then all you have to do is call Crew Scheduling on their recorded line, tell them that you just got to your room, and your 8 hours starts right then. Huge improvement.

I've been doing that for 15 years.

I will continue to delay a flight if we got seriously delayed and I'm fatigued and need more rest, or I'll just call fatigue and they can figure out how to fix it while I'm asleep.

It's safety. I don't have to do it often (maybe once every year or two), but the ability to do that was always there in the regs. As long as you didn't abuse it, no one ever called me to ask any follow-up questions, whether it was a 15 minute delay the next morning or 2 hours.

I wouldn't call this a "huge" improvement, I'd simply call it "a step in the right direction with some unintended consequences for major airline pilots." The Regional guys should be ecstatic though...

 

[ackattacker]

I work for Atlas, and like World, for example, we fly both PAX and cargo.

So, how is it going to work when we fly both. For example, this week I have a freight trip, followed by a PAX trip. There is no mention of how this is to be implemented, because the FAA is only thinking about DAL/FedEx, and not airlines like mine...

cliff
RMS

I think it's fairly clear that the "exemption" is only for *all* cargo operations.

If your airline flies both pax and cargo then they'll need to comply with the new regs. Additionally a cargo operation cannot pick and choose rest rules for each flight, they have to pick one set of rules for whole the operation and stick to it. I could be wrong though.

In order to prevent manipulation of this voluntary provision, certificate holders who wish to operate their all-cargo operations under part 117 cannot pick and choose specific flights to operate under this rule. Instead, the certificate holders can only elect to operate under part 117: (1) all of their all-cargo operations conducted under contract to a US government agency; and (2) all of their all-cargo operations not conducted under contract to a US Government agency.

Edit: rereading what I just wrote, it's clear as mud now that I think about it. I don't know the answer. "All cargo operation" could refer just to a specific flight assignment with no pax I suppose. It sounds like legally you could choose to operate the cargo legs under the old rules and the pax legs under the new rules. I would imagine that you could mix them together the same way airlines mix the domestic and flag rest rules currently.

 

[Saabslime]

I don't think it's a coincidence that these rest rules come out just before guys start hitting the age 65 limit. All these rules do is allow the passenger airlines to do more with less. :angryfire

 

[HA25]

Anybody that allows themselves to be subjected to a 16 hour duty day, new FAR's or not, needs to have their certificate yanked.

that's a short day at all the bottom feeder's like Kalitta, Atlas, and Evergreen...

However, apparently their pilots are immune to fatigue.

 

[scoreboardII]

What 9 hours does for AirTran is allows just about everything from any domicile be run as a turn instead of the 24 hour overnights we get throughout the Caribbean and West Coast, which is what I primarily bid (I like playing on the company dime and still get 17-18 days off a month with about 75 hours of block, 80 hrs credit (about 105 TFP)).

I'm not excited. I didn't get into this gig to work 12 hour duty days, get 11 hours at the hotel, fly 9 hours a day over 4 or 5 legs, 22-24 hour 3-days to make it commutable, still with 18 days off a month but working my butt off around 90 hours of block per month.

uke:

Lear, not to worry, our contract limits us to 8 hours, and now the feds require 10 hours off, so we now have th best of both sides and wwe are not going to let them push us to 9 hours.

The new rules can't require us to fly to 9, but they can require the company to schedule us for 10 off.