New Pinnacle Management team

[Flyer1015]

Flyer- so one assumes by your reasoning that experience counts for nothing. The only reason your logic works (no pic to move on) in the real world is from the HR stand point of "equal" opportunity programs and daddy is in management so I will get hired by United. PIC time equals time and experience making decisions that matter. But just go on thinking just the opposite. You have no PIC and were gifted an opportunity and must justify why you were given sais opportunity.

Experience does matter, and PIC is excellent. However, PIC (by upgrading) isn't a special skill that only a select few can attain due to skill. It is solely a factor dependent on the economy, the regional airline, and its growth/attrition plans. The reason most 5+ year RJ FOs haven't upgraded isn't because of a lack of skill, it's due to the fact the industry has stagnated and current RJ Captains aren't going anywhere. RJ wages were not meant to be lived on for the better part of a decade. What's your solution for these people? Totally pass them over and hire only RJ Captains? So that maybe one day, a RJ FO can hope to be a 10-12yr RJ Captain the first time he sees the left seat? And in that mean time make 30-40k at most?

Personally, I think management pilot/HR types have realized the industry stagnation has left lots of higher time FOs with no TPIC and because that's no fault of their own, they are giving them a fair chance. Also, it's not just minorities or family members getting called as RJ FOs. I've heard of several RJ FO white, non-family relation pilots getting hired at United, US Airways, Spirit, JetBlue, and VX.

 

[xjhawk]

"higher time First officers are not 3000-4000 hour pilots" and that is the level the majors and national airlines are hiring before captains with greater than 6,000 hours and decision making experience. But your point is valid about the stagnation. At some point a long time FO deserves a chance. But I must say that I just flew with a guy that during a simple diversion because of weather I had to walk him through all the simple steps that needed to be done for the diversion-what to say to dispatch, changing the destination on the FMS, setting a new landing alt for a comfy landing on the ears. so much for 5-6 years of experience and helping me out a little. I am sure he will go somewhere before me though

 

[Flyer1015]

"higher time First officers are not 3000-4000 hour pilots" and that is the level the majors and national airlines are hiring before captains with greater than 6,000 hours and decision making experience. But your point is valid about the stagnation. At some point a long time FO deserves a chance. But I must say that I just flew with a guy that during a simple diversion because of weather I had to walk him through all the simple steps that needed to be done for the diversion-what to say to dispatch, changing the destination on the FMS, setting a new landing alt for a comfy landing on the ears. so much for 5-6 years of experience and helping me out a little. I am sure he will go somewhere before me though

LOL! That sucks. These are the (although usually rare) guys that sit on their hands after 4-5 years in the right seat, and then also have a problem on the ATP ride. It isn't just handed out, you have to earn it. I'm surprised though about diversion, especially at 9E flying in the winter weather in the midwest and northeast, you'd think he'd have at least a couple diversions under his belt. I did IOE in a December, reserve Jan/Feb, and Feb I diverted going into DAY, ended up landing at CMH. Took off later, and then landed at DAY. And yes, this was a highspeed! :-O

As for higher time, yes, any FO that has been flying regularly at 9E fro 2007-8 probably has a good 4000-6000+ hours by now, mostly all SIC RJ time. A few upgraded and then were downgraded after the XJ/9L mess.

I will agree that, if ALL things equal, I'd call a 6000 hr RJ CA before a 3000 hr RJ FO. But it seems these days, airlines are now starting online testing, VX did it and now apparently Spirit does too! When this is used to weed out people, it unfortunately takes out the total time equation. The system shows who passed the test, and as long as the mins are met, the name is passed onto HR to call for interview.

I wonder if United or Delta have something similar?

 

[1.3XVso]

LOL! That sucks. These are the (although usually rare) guys that sit on their hands after 4-5 years in the right seat, and then also have a problem on the ATP ride. It isn't just handed out, you have to earn it. I'm surprised though about diversion, especially at 9E flying in the winter weather in the midwest and northeast, you'd think he'd have at least a couple diversions under his belt. I did IOE in a December, reserve Jan/Feb, and Feb I diverted going into DAY, ended up landing at CMH. Took off later, and then landed at DAY. And yes, this was a highspeed! :-O

As for higher time, yes, any FO that has been flying regularly at 9E fro 2007-8 probably has a good 4000-6000+ hours by now, mostly all SIC RJ time. A few upgraded and then were downgraded after the XJ/9L mess.

I will agree that, if ALL things equal, I'd call a 6000 hr RJ CA before a 3000 hr RJ FO. But it seems these days, airlines are now starting online testing, VX did it and now apparently Spirit does too! When this is used to weed out people, it unfortunately takes out the total time equation. The system shows who passed the test, and as long as the mins are met, the name is passed onto HR to call for interview.

I wonder if United or Delta have something similar?

We have some real winners here at 9E. Between Captains that can't work the numbers to get a jumpseater on, Captains asking for a alternate with a cloud over the field, Captains delaying flights for WX, FO's who think they are supreme man pilots, FO's from riddle, UND, who in their greeting speach they add " Im a riddle grad" yeah so what. Anyways yeah we have some winners.

 

[1.3XVso]

Speech*

 

[xjhawk]

captains delaying a flight for weather is a bad thing? I just had dispatch try to send me to two different airports with major thunder storms. The first time I agreed to go because it seemed we had plenty of time-which turned into a diversion. The second one was a no brainer-I would not go for hours and soon timed out. Call me a bad captain. lol oh and in my 5-6 years as a captain, only twice did I ever refuse a jump seater. The first was a crj 200 flight from Billings to MSP with an alternate and I could only take 35 PAX and the second was impossible for landing weight after adding ballast for CG.

 

[1.3XVso]

captains delaying a flight for weather is a bad thing? I just had dispatch try to send me to two different airports with major thunder storms. The first time I agreed to go because it seemed we had plenty of time-which turned into a diversion. The second one was a no brainer-I would not go for hours and soon timed out. Call me a bad captain. lol oh and in my 5-6 years as a captain, only twice did I ever refuse a jump seater. The first was a crj 200 flight from Billings to MSP with an alternate and I could only take 35 PAX and the second was impossible for landing weight after adding ballast for CG.

I said SOME WINNERS. Obviously if the numbers don't work then they don't. Im talking about specific tools that we have. You know the ones that start to breath hard when a master caution dings? Anyway carry on sir.

 

[Flyer1015]

I did have one rather, um, large DTW Mesaba Captain, she turned me down for a jumpseat on a CRJ-200 just by glancing at the paperwork because it said weight restricted. I mean, one could at least go down the jetbridge to the FMS box, type in the fuel load, 51 pax, and cargo numbers and then come up and deny a jumpseat.......

 

[Monster Buck]

We have some real winners here at 9E. Between Captains that can't work the numbers to get a jumpseater on, Captains asking for a alternate with a cloud over the field, Captains delaying flights for WX, FO's who think they are supreme man pilots, FO's from riddle, UND, who in their greeting speach they add " Im a riddle grad" yeah so what. Anyways yeah we have some winners.

It sounds like your jealous that they graduated from a better school than you.

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

He's GIA, jealous that they didn't PFT.