New Mailing from Leonidas,llc to USAIRWAYS East Pilots"

[charlie2]

Plus you're probably a good parent. I owe it to my family to drink in hotel bars instead of home.

 

[charlie2]

You guys would really give up higher paying long overnights in Europe for lower paying Fargo overnights? I don't get it. Someone who is a crappy parent like me explain...please.

 

[becket]

You guys would really give up higher paying long overnights in Europe for lower paying Fargo overnights? I don't get it. Someone who is a crappy parent like me explain...please.

I know I would. Who the hell wants to commute 3 time zones away then fly a 10 hr flight? Not me. I love the East coast...i don't however want to live there, pay their taxes, tolls and other huge cost of living increases. Most Phoenicians like the weather and the cost of living and the thought of moving the PHL gives them nightmares.

Also, I've been all over Europe...for vacation...when I've actually had time to enjoy it. I couldn't give a rats azz about where my hotel is located. I just want to get to my days off fairly well rested. Not a zombie. Hawaii overnights aren't really Fargo either btw.

 

[reepicheep]

It should have been written that the majority of east pilots will commute for money - with those domiciles what else is there to do anyway? Commute from CLT to PHL to hold a higher paying job - big deal. 2,000 mile commute across 3 time zones and with possible anti-commuter fatigue rules in the offing - not gonna happen. And the PSA pilots didn't come east en masse until forced to by the downsizing/closure of the west. Most stayed put and went to 737 school. I think the only "flood" would be westbound into PHX. Take a look out the window right now - wanna spend your Golden Years in Eastern PA, or Arizona?

 

[charlie2]

Good for you Becket but I asked for a crappy parents input! Good for you for having your priorities in place and enjoying a good family and professional life. There are more than fifteen hundred (sorry I don't know the exact number) west pilots and I would bet that more than half don't share your lifestyle. That's a lot of pilots taking my seat.

 

[charlie2]

It should have been written that the majority of east pilots will commute for money - with those domiciles what else is there to do anyway? Commute from CLT to PHL to hold a higher paying job - big deal. 2,000 mile commute across 3 time zones and with possible anti-commuter fatigue rules in the offing - not gonna happen. And the PSA pilots didn't come east en masse until forced to by the downsizing/closure of the west. Most stayed put and went to 737 school. I think the only "flood" would be westbound into PHX. Take a look out the window right now - wanna spend your Golden Years in Eastern PA, or Arizona?

Don't understand...I can live whereever I choose and after retirement there is no commuting.

 

[reepicheep]

Take a look at the proposed new fatigue rules - commuting cross-country would be impractible if not impossible. As for moving - I think the guys/gals who live in the West generally have a different mentality. I think you'd find a surprisingly small number that would be willing to take such a huge lifestyle hit.

 

[charlie2]

Take a look at the proposed new fatigue rules - commuting cross-country would be impractible if not impossible. As for moving - I think the guys/gals who live in the West generally have a different mentality. I think you'd find a surprisingly small number that would be willing to take such a huge lifestyle hit.

Not enforceable. Nice rules though.

 

[LearLove]

If the west guys all want to stay west [side of the country] then they will have no problem signing a lifetime fence keeping them in PHX/LAS, right.

You guys can have NIC all you want just sign a lifetime fence on your PHX and LAS base. If you bid out of PHX/LAS then it is DOH.

 

[smails]

I'm sorry, but are the ones who would rather be on long overnights in Europe, the same ones who are mad when they come home and find out thet their wife has been giving airstarts to the neighborhood,the teenage daughter is pregnant,and son is wearing a dress? My comment is not directed at any specific post, but rather, are some peoples choices made in the best interest of your family, or your own selfish desires?

 

[cactusboy53]

If the west guys all want to stay west [side of the country] then they will have no problem signing a lifetime fence keeping them in PHX/LAS, right.

You guys can have NIC all you want just sign a lifetime fence on your PHX and LAS base. If you bid out of PHX/LAS then it is DOH.

"If" you wish in one hand and deficate in the other, do you know what you get when you put your hands together? Exactly what you have got.

There is no one that has the ability, right or authority to "negotiate" away from the middle ground that we now inhabit ---that would be the Nicolau Award. We will not bend, we will not fold, we will not capitulate, we stand firmly on LEGAL, MORAL & ETHICAL grounds. We are WELL FUNDED, and ultimately we will succeed.

You have to ask yourself these questions:
1. Am I willing to work for LOA 93 wages forever?
2. WHEN a court finally forces the Nicolau Award (no fence, no C & R's) upon you, will the loss of MILLIONS of dollars really have been worth it?

If you answer YES, then there is little hope for you. Elvis & logic have left the building.

 

[LearLove]

I'm sorry, but are the ones who would rather be on long overnights in Europe, the same ones who are mad when they come home and find out thet their wife has been giving airstarts to the neighborhood,the teenage daughter is pregnant,and son is wearing a dress? My comment is not directed at any specific post, but rather, are some peoples choices made in the best interest of your family, or your own selfish desires?

actually the Euro skeds are 3 days that start late and end early on day 3. Better than most domestic 4 days or 3 day followed by a 2 day lines.

as for 1 days - I'd take them also if I lived 30 minutes from the airport. In fact if I move to CLT and buy where I want to buy I would bid 1 day trips.

 

[cactusboy53]

If the west guys all want to stay west [side of the country] then they will have no problem signing a lifetime fence keeping them in PHX/LAS, right.

You guys can have NIC all you want just sign a lifetime fence on your PHX and LAS base. If you bid out of PHX/LAS then it is DOH.

Oh wait, this may expain the above:

Posts: 3,661
Civ/Mil: .
A/C Flown: E-190, Dash8, PA31-350, T-34B
Ratings: ATP E-190, DHC-8, CFI
Curr Position: E-190 FO
Total Time: 10,000

CEL List? I think that might be a safe bet. So what you are really saying is that you don't want any westies out in PHL until such time that you occupy a left seat narrow body, right?

 

[LearLove]

Oh wait, this may expain the above:

Posts: 3,661
Civ/Mil: .
A/C Flown: E-190, Dash8, PA31-350, T-34B
Ratings: ATP E-190, DHC-8, CFI
Curr Position: E-190 FO
Total Time: 10,000

CEL List? I think that might be a safe bet.

yep, and NIC or DOH is maybe 50 to 75 numbers diff. to me. Not much on a 5000 (ish) combined list and especially that I am in my mid 30's. So my standing up for DOH shows that it is my principles I'm backing not "self purpose".

 

[xrated]

.....

 

[cactusboy53]

yep, and NIC or DOH is maybe 50 to 75 numbers diff. to me. Not much on a 5000 (ish) combined list and especially that I am in my mid 30's. So my standing up for DOH shows that it is my principles I'm backing not "self purpose".

Principles:

So if the two pilot groups stay separate or we sign a contract that restricts west pilots from PHL, CLT or DCA....you would gain subsancially regarding base seniority (certainly NOT MONEY, TIME OFF, VACATION, STD, LTD, or any other segment)....just BASE SENIORITY.

Principle: To keep one's word. To be held to a higher standard. A man's word is his bond. As in back in the day, you shook a person's hand and expected both parties to abide by the agreement.

Date of Hire has not been a part of Airline Pilot seniority for nearly two decades. In fact the ALPA merger policy that was used when AWA acquired US Air was crafted by the US Air ALPA. You just can't have your cake and eat it too.

Sorry Sport, you are on the wrong side of the law & fence. If you are lucky, it may only cost you the money that has been lost in the lack of a new contract.

 

[LearLove]

....you would gain subsancially regarding base seniority .

Are you stupid? You know you can buy "Hooked on Phonics" online.
http://www.hookedonphonics.com/learn-to-read/?ShowPopup=0&gclid=CP39u4e76KcCFYbb4AoddGfRaw

It may help with your reading comprehension.

I hardly think 50 to 75 numbers (the aprox. amount hired at AWA from AUG 2004 to the merger) spread out over 3 bases (minus the ones staying out west) would be a "gain substantially".

 

[xrated]

I didn't get this mailing for some reason...was I fired? The last one was very misleading. For instance in all the graphs and tables it gave no mention to the many widebody FO seats we have that the west does not. Many of us, me included, would rather be a happy (not angry) block holding widebody FO then a reserve minibus captain because the quality of life would be much higher and the pay not so differant. I hope I get to see a copy of the new one!!

Define "many widebody FO seats". Airways has the smallest widebody fleet of all the majors and it seems to give all the Easties a real H@rd on that conceivably, West pilots could move to 1/3 of those spots. I have yet to talk to any West pilots who give a Rat$ a$$ about commuting to PHL for that crap. Keep in mind the wide boddy fleet is so small, that most East pilots will never have the opportunity to fly them anyways.

While yes, under Nic, West may have a chance at 1/3 of the wide body seats, but the East will have a chance of 2/3's of the seats out West.

With DOH, and C&R's, the East wants it ALL!! That will NOT happen!!

 

[cactusboy53]

Are you stupid? You know you can buy "Hooked on Phonics" online.
http://www.hookedonphonics.com/learn-to-read/?ShowPopup=0&gclid=CP39u4e76KcCFYbb4AoddGfRaw

It may help with your reading comprehension.

I hardly think 50 to 75 numbers (the aprox. amount hired at AWA from AUG 2004 to the merger) spread out over 3 bases (minus the ones staying out west) would be a "gain substantially".

I'm not stupid, sonny. I simply said that if we had separate operations you would gain as such. No "westies" to invade your territory. You would move up with attrition & retirements. Any additional flying added to PHL, CLT & DCA would also add to your position in a separate operation.

You stated you wanted some sort of guarantee that would keep all of us wide-body-money-grubbing-dirt-bag-westies from your rightful seat (sorry, my words.....surely not yours). It just sounds like your skewed definition of principle is just exactly that.

Have a wonderful evening. I've got an early flight to operate.

 

[Metrojet]

"If" you wish in one hand and deficate in the other, do you know what you get when you put your hands together? Exactly what you have got.

There is no one that has the ability, right or authority to "negotiate" away from the middle ground that we now inhabit ---that would be the Nicolau Award. We will not bend, we will not fold, we will not capitulate, we stand firmly on LEGAL, MORAL & ETHICAL grounds. We are WELL FUNDED, and ultimately we will succeed.

You have to ask yourself these questions:
1. Am I willing to work for LOA 93 wages forever?
2. WHEN a court finally forces the Nicolau Award (no fence, no C & R's) upon you, will the loss of MILLIONS of dollars really have been worth it?

If you answer YES, then there is little hope for you. Elvis & logic have left the building.

Cactusboy -

Pretty strong posistion you take - exactly how 99% feel on the East regarding Section 22. If you want a joint contract - it is very simple - take the 10 year fence - since after 10 years - the majority of pilots here will be westies - in the mean time - all age 60+ pilot here are eligible for PBGC and in 20 months we will have dozens of people retiring every year (so all your so called "angry fo's will upgrade).

Try this on for size - do you know what the Prime Minister of Israel says when the world blames Israel for all the middle East problems - he says it is very simple to secure peace - GIVE UP - that is what the West wants.
The West wants to come and occupy our land (clt and phl), our house (our cockpits) and take what they never had a claim to.

SOLUTION - The West stays in PHX and LAS - the EAST stays in CLT, PHL, and DCA.

Metrojet