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New generation of USAF officers

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milplt

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2003
Posts
85
This thread is to generate a little thought among those considering becoming USAF officers. What I have seen lately concerns me.

My AFB (among many others) is hosting AFROTC and Academy cadets for the summer. The intent is to introduce them to thier future lifestyle/career I suppose, although I think it is mostly meant to encourage them to stay with the program - using us as part of the USAF sales pitch.

Anyway, our AFROTC cadets spent most of their days in our main briefing room watching movies - to the extent that the secretary had to go tell them to turn down the volume on their showing of "Star Wars" as there was actual work being accomplished in the building and the noise was distracting. Any time I saw the group, they were either walking down the hall as a single mass, or huddled in the main briefing room - no voluntary interaction with the squadron personnel at all.

At one point, they were all huddled in the bar (relax, they were only there because they were kicked out of the main briefing room since it was need for a flight debrief) and an IP walked in to announce that he had an open back seat and was looking to see who wanted to occupy it (sts). Notice that the cadets were not scrounging for the sortie, the IP went looking for the cadets. Well, it seems that no one wanted to partake. So the IP asked who the pilot candidates were, and they raised their hands. The IP then asked those cadets which one wanted to go fly. The general response was "no thanks, we're good." For some additional background, none of these cadets had flown more than once up until this point, none had flown previously in the day, and there were no time constraints that were keeping them from flying.

Here is my point with all of this rambling. First, I think those cadets with pilot slots should lose their pilot slots. If they are that ambivalent at this point in their career (i.e. before it has even started), then they definitely do not have the natural curiosity of all things military aviation that they need to thrive in UPT and beyond. Let's lose this current PC attitude and go back to the old days, where we knew that there were always 10 people in line waiting for you to lose your pilot slot for some reason or another. When I was a cadet, I most certainly would have expected no less. P.S., for you Academy grads, these were ROTC cadets, not Academy cadets that "had been under the gun non-stop for the last 2 years and just needed a 2-week vacation" These were ROTC cadets from civilian colleges, and they were finally living on an AF base among AD military personnel and going to work in a tactical jet squadron flying with officers who had all seen some sort of combat or another, and were rubbing shoulders with LT's just a couple of years their senior who had just gone through 1.5+ years of training and were just getting started on their career.

It isn't just the pilots, by the way. There is the LT who shot next to be during M9 training a couple of months ago and did not qualify - he hit my target as many times as he hit his - and, yes, he was aiming at his. After listening to him whine about having to retrain for a few minutes, I had to remind him that: 1. the M9 is his primary duty weapon and he sucked at its employment, so retraining was required as a professional concern, and 2. he was whining about being paid to skip a day of normal work to go shoot a 9mm pistol at the govt's expense.

I don't get the impression at all that these folks understand what they are getting into. It's called the military, and the mission is death and destruction. Our ROTC detachments need to cull the herd a little, especially with the RIF (or whatever it is being called) going on right now. We need fewer, but more motivated officers. Let's allow them to do push-ups as punishment, again.

So now I am looking to see what the general response is, especially among those who have been operational for a few tours and are now training the newest generation - and I am talking general impressions, not the 1 dude who was a superstar. The general officers saw a problem, but their answer was a 2-week mini-SOS called ABC or something like that. I saw more military training and screening on "Officer and a Gentleman" than I can at ROTC dets nowadays. And academy cadets aren't much better, ask the generic Academy grad to VID a USAF aircraft or explain how we employ and do our mission at the tactical level and you'll be surprised at the lack of knowledge - it isn't like it used to be. Am I the only one with this point of view?
 
1) Pilot candidates declining a ride? WTFO????

2) Watching Star Wars and being obnoxious, common courtesy to be respectful.

3) Am I wrong in assuming a good deal of them have HORRIBLE social skills and like to keep to themselves.

4) A guy complaining about having to go shoot a gun all day? WTF!!!!! First of all, being a professional soldier, don't you WANT to shoot guns? I mean it isn't suppose to be all touchy feely BS is it?

That's disapointing to know that some mama's boy dorks are flying.

5) Unable to VISUALLY I.D. USAF aircraft? As a kid, and even now there aren't too many military airplanes in the entire US military history I cannot I.D. Majority of Civvie "western" airplanes as well.

I'm a civillian...obviously, and I've run into CFII/MEIs who couldn't tell the difference between a P-47 and an Air Cobra or an F-105 and a Phantom!

Good post, thanks for the insight.
 
When i joined, 50% of the airforce was made up of folks who flew. Now I think it's less than 25%...

We had a kid come to our squadron under simalar circumstances who had an attitude as you described, he was in the process of going through that flight indoc thing, the government paid C-152 training to see if they have a chance at flying. he could fly, but had that attitude. he is on the street, we kicked him out. What did you do to these guys? Seems you need to kick some butt...
 
The F-15 students I get at Tyndall are fired up patriots. I had to learn to employ the Aim-9M and Aim 7M back in 1992. These guys do all that plus Aim-120s, datalink, NVGs, and host of more complicated tactics that I ever had to deal with, and they do it very well.

We get a few guys with bad attitudes--but very few. Those who show up a bit self centered usually get the picture about 90% of the time--those other 10% get crushed.

A lot of what you see is likely a failure of AFROTC leadership. How many fighter guys are working in dets right now? How many aquisition officers? The fact is these guys don't know what to expect because I doubt they've had a lot of exposure to this type of stuff. How do you know how to BE a warrior if you don't have any to learn from? The AFROTC cadre is not known for a lot of carnivorous types--it tends to attract the herbivores out of the force. There are exceptions, I know...but honestly--how many squadron commanders or OGs have you met that did a 2-3 year AFROTC stint in their career?

Want to fix it? Quit bitching on the internet. Grab 2 or 3 of these guys and take them home on hospitality night. TEACH them. Ask the AFROTC folks if you can chat with a few of the UPT types sometime when they have 10-30 minutes of slack time. FWIW--I did this several years at Tyndall--took kids over to my place for pizza, jetsking, pool party, and even offered beer--which cadets informed me they had to decline by reg. I didn't bitch at them--just gave them a few hours of fun on the water and let them SEE what being an F15 pilot can be...rewarding and cool. While we were chillin' on the bay, I answered their questions about why I thought being an Air Force officer and pilot was worth all the work and effort. We had a blast--then I took them back to their base before curfew. Hopefully--it mattered. If it didn't--at least I tried.

So--lead. Mold some clay. If these guys are that slack, you'll be a great influence.
 
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frog_flyer said:
i have to call BS on them not wanting to fly......

No, I'm afraid I can see it. Many ROTC units have an unstated mission, and that mission is to get a free education without having to work for it. In terms of the quality of military personnel (motivated, patriotic, selfless), I think we peaked in the late Reagan era. Since then, it hasn't been as "cool" to be military - witness the banning of ROTC from many campuses.

Many, not all, current officer candidates are part of the "me, me, me" generation that cares about only one thing, that of course being "me."
 
If it makes ya feel any better, we see the same crap in the Navy when midshipmen get sent to us in the summer. The majority of these kids would rather sleep, eat and watch movies in the wardroom. Most of them could care less about actaully learning anything let alone standing a watch....and the sad thing is that most of the ships they go to are too busy to worry about baby sitting so the kids leave at the end of their 'cruise' without learning a dang thing.
 
Gorilla said:
No, I'm afraid I can see it. Many ROTC units have an unstated mission, and that mission is to get a free education without having to work for it. In terms of the quality of military personnel (motivated, patriotic, selfless), I think we peaked in the late Reagan era. Since then, it hasn't been as "cool" to be military - witness the banning of ROTC from many campuses.

Many, not all, current officer candidates are part of the "me, me, me" generation that cares about only one thing, that of course being "me."

I sadly agree with this. I was in one of the best AFROTC units in the country and I was medically DQ'd by DoDMERB because I had asthma as a little kid. This was despite my 425/500 PFT scores, playing high school football, and passing every PT/Medical test with flying colors. My last semester of ROTC I kicked ass and took names, and it was bittersweet going to Commander's Call knowing I wouldn't be going to field training, wouldn't be back next semester, wouldn't be an Air Force Officer.

Some of my fellow cadets squeaked through field training, did the minimum required by their scholarship, and a couple of these turds even got pilot slots. It made me sick knowing that I wanted to be an AF officer more than anything yet I was barred because of ONE ENTRY in my medical records (not a current condition) while these d-bags got a golden ticket. It didn't stop me from trying to find another way in...but was pretty disheartening.

When I was at MFS some ROTC guys down for their medicals were watching Varsity Blues (which has brief nudity and plenty of harsh language) at a rather loud volume. Nobody said anything, but it seemed a bit inappropriate to me...

/med DQ'd from OTS because of infected lymph node
//med hard DQ'd at MFS for 'high interocular pressue'
 
In tweets we had some jet-o action and the two cadets I showed around were pretty good guys. Both were going to be rear echelon types but were pretty stoked to be flying and even asked how to do some acro. I was pretty impressed with their enthusiasm for something they may never do again. Those academy guys were definitely geekazoids but thankfully it's not all bad.
 
It's been a while but I think you guys have lost a clue. The whole college (academy or ROTC) thing is to get the degree in order to move on in life. After the crap I put up with during the academic year the last thing I want to do in the summer is put up with a bunch of company grade officers who want to "teach" me something about the "operational" side of life. How is that going to help me with EE or Astro when I go back to school in the fall. It's sad to see how much their working the cadets on my base this summer. Gone are the days when the skipper said we worked hard enough during the year so take the and go observe the Canadian "Ballet" establishments in Vancouver and be back in a week. Summers away from the yard should be spent in search of the opposite sex, copious amounts of beer, and trying to forget that you're getting a 300,000 dollar education shoved up you a nickel at a time.

just my two cents...
Box 2A
 

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