New Contract

[ShutupandFly]

Can somone tell me if this passes the smell test. The union at my airline has told us we have a TA with the company but they are not posting it on the website. They are going to "present" the information to us at two meetings they will have at the end of the month. We are supposed to make it to one of the meetings, listen to what they have to say and then vote yes or no. This will be a problem for me as I won't even be in the coutry on ether date. This is what they posted.

"There is no doubt that you are very anxious to see the language and terms of your new contract. Because this is your first agreement we will present the information at ratification meetings on January 23rd and 24th. We will announce the times and location sometime next week. It is very important that everyone make a special effort to come to one of the meetings. Ballots will be handed out at the meetings and then will be counted after the last meeting on January 24th."

Any suggestions?

 

[homerjdispatch]

Can somone tell me if this passes the smell test. The union at my airline has told us we have a TA with the company but they are not posting it on the website. They are going to "present" the information to us at two meetings they will have at the end of the month. We are supposed to make it to one of the meetings, listen to what they have to say and then vote yes or no. This will be a problem for me as I won't even be in the coutry on ether date. This is what they posted.

"There is no doubt that you are very anxious to see the language and terms of your new contract. Because this is your first agreement we will present the information at ratification meetings on January 23rd and 24th. We will announce the times and location sometime next week. It is very important that everyone make a special effort to come to one of the meetings. Ballots will be handed out at the meetings and then will be counted after the last meeting on January 24th."

Any suggestions?

One suggestion....GET RID OF THE UNION!!!!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Can somone tell me if this passes the smell test. The union at my airline has told us we have a TA with the company but they are not posting it on the website. They are going to "present" the information to us at two meetings they will have at the end of the month. We are supposed to make it to one of the meetings, listen to what they have to say and then vote yes or no. This will be a problem for me as I won't even be in the coutry on ether date. This is what they posted.

"There is no doubt that you are very anxious to see the language and terms of your new contract. Because this is your first agreement we will present the information at ratification meetings on January 23rd and 24th. We will announce the times and location sometime next week. It is very important that everyone make a special effort to come to one of the meetings. Ballots will be handed out at the meetings and then will be counted after the last meeting on January 24th."

Any suggestions?

1. Contact your rep(s). Ask them who made the decision to hold off on publication of the T.A....and why. Also, ask for accommodation to review the information and vote prior to your trip.
2. Review your union's rules. Are they permitted (or required!) to conduct ratification voting this way? [Note: All Americans vote on a single day, unless the voter himself makes arrangements to recieve and return, an absentee ballot] If they aren't, the DoL will help you straighten it out.

It's not unusual to delay getting the entire T.A. out the membership. Many times the agreement reached at the table is "bullet points" or agreement in principle...with exact langauge to be developed later. An example of that was the '01 pilot strike at CMR. If the voting is on a compressed timeline, requring attendance at roadhsows tends to ensure that the membership is voting with all the details, with the opportunity to ask questions, instead of simply reading a document on your home computer.

I think the release of all the available details as quickly as possible is always the correct course of action, but I understand why your leadership might want to handle this first vote (especially if you have a small shop) using a must be present to win method.

 

[405]

They won't let us see our "contract" until the meetings on the 23rd and 24th.

 

[405]

I'll just ask my attorney to get involved. We'll see what happens after that.

 

[Occam's Razor]

They won't let us see our "contract" until the meetings on the 23rd and 24th.

What did your elected rep(s) say when you asked them why?

 

[homerjdispatch]

What union did you all vote in?

 

[hoover]

It was the same at Air Wisconsin. We voted at one of two presentation meetings. They had the contract ready for us to read at the presentation.

 

[405]

What did your elected rep(s) say when you asked them why?

They said the language wasn't complete and they didn't want to confuse anyone with that.

When asked about when the TA would be ready, they said it would be ready for the meetings.

We get two or three hours to review a contract at their meeting that's going to last for six years.

Completely unacceptable.

 

[405]

What union did you all vote in?

TWU.

It was one vote that got them in. One vote.

The best part is that all of the union supporters are now gone except for maybe two people.

 

[405]

It was the same at Air Wisconsin. We voted at one of two presentation meetings. They had the contract ready for us to read at the presentation.

So you never got to read the contract before the meeting? They presented it to you and then you voted on whether or not to ratify it right there on the spot?

I may be blowing this way out of proportion but I have a problem on voting on a contract that I see and hear about from the union at one meeting.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Totally Worthless Union.... Why not have a vote to get them out, if all the supporters are gone?

 

[405]

Totally Worthless Union.... Why not have a vote to get them out, if all the supporters are gone?

We're looking into this.

To be more precise, they are looking into this. I don't know if I'm going back to that office. To me it seems like our management could care less about us and it seems like the teewoo just wants our money.

Sixteen years in aviation. I've had it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Hey! Any other TWU dispatchers here?

If so...jump in here and pony-up some gouge!

Get the PM's flying to get some info to these guys about how things are done at your place. Be ready to provide some contract data so these guys can be better prepared to vote on their deal.*

*This assumes you would like to see dispatchers getting better deals in the future. The best way to do that is to start getting good deals now...and rejecting bad ones.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Hey! Any other TWU dispatchers here?

If so...jump in here and pony-up some gouge!

Get the PM's flying to get some info to these guys about how things are done at your place. Be ready to provide some contract data so these guys can be better prepared to vote on their deal.*

*This assumes you would like to see dispatchers getting better deals in the future. The best way to do that is to start getting good deals now...and rejecting bad ones.

And there is the rub. We have no idea if it's a good deal or a bad one that needs rejecting. They expect us to vote on it during the same meeting that we get a first view of the TA. No time to read the entire thing and understand what's in it. Just listen to the pep rally and vote. They must really want to start taking our money and think if we actualy read the aggreement we will vote it down. Or maybe they just don't want to let us talk about it with each other.

 

[Occam's Razor]

And there is the rub. We have no idea if it's a good deal or a bad one that needs rejecting. They expect us to vote on it during the same meeting that we get a first view of the TA. No time to read the entire thing and understand what's in it. Just listen to the pep rally and vote. They must really want to start taking our money and think if we actualy read the aggreement we will vote it down. Or maybe they just don't want to let us talk about it with each other.

Sounds screwy to me.

Unless it's a 20-page pamphlet on pay rates and hours-of-service, it would have to be pretty basic and Marine-proof (simple and with pictures!) for me to feel good about doing it that way.

 

[DispaccioDaddyO]

It was the same at Air Wisconsin. We voted at one of two presentation meetings. They had the contract ready for us to read at the presentation.

So were you guys satisfied with the presentation? When I asked our shop steward for more info on why they chose to handle it this way he said it is out of his hands. Any more info would be much appreciated!

 

[405]

So were you guys satisfied with the presentation? When I asked our shop steward for more info on why they chose to handle it this way he said it is out of his hands. Any more info would be much appreciated!

Just out curiousity, does ALPA or any other union hand out a contract at a meeting and say "here it is, vote on it."

I'm not satisfied with this kind of presentation. If this contract is going to affect me for six years (if I'm even here that much longer) I want to look the contract over even if "the language isn't complete". I can read english and usually get through the legal jargon too. Surely these people have read a FAR before.

 

[DispaccioDaddyO]

Just out curiousity, does ALPA or any other union hand out a contract at a meeting and say "here it is, vote on it."

I'm not satisfied with this kind of presentation. If this contract is going to affect me for six years (if I'm even here that much longer) I want to look the contract over even if "the language isn't complete". I can read english and usually get through the legal jargon too. Surely these people have read a FAR before.

He also said that they want it to go in effect Feb 1.... screw one more month it has already taken 17! I do not want a contract shoved down my throat! If they were really worried about people understanding the terms of the contract they would give us more time to digest it, not come down here throw it in our faces and stop by the payroll department on the way out to start garnishing paychecks. I would be happy if they gave us a week after the meetings to vote... is that so much to ask???

 

[405]

If they won't let us see the contract, please just vote no. We shouldn't have to make a decision at their road show.

Vote it down.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Just out curiousity, does ALPA or any other union hand out a contract at a meeting and say "here it is, vote on it."

No, but we've had other situations where membership ratification has been bypassed altogether. 13-days into the '98 strike at NWA the Negotiators reached a TA. Since ALPA didn't have electronic balloting in those "dark ages", and since the pilot group was on strike and scattered around the country...the MEC approved the deal.

The MEC conducted a large poll of almost half the pilot group, and 80% wanted the MEC to make the call, rather than remaining on strike for another 2-weeks to conduct balloting.

Since electronic balloting, all other large issues (assessments, contracts, extensions, the '03 pay rase, etc) have been handled via mulitple roadshows and a 2-week-long voting window.

Unless you guys have been receiving comprehensive SITREPS from your union on the progress of the negotiations, and the items that have been settled...I'd vote "no" and buy yourself some time to sort through everything.

Good luck!

 

[405]

Unless you guys have been receiving comprehensive SITREPS from your union on the progress of the negotiations, and the items that have been settled...I'd vote "no" and buy yourself some time to sort through everything.

Good luck!

I haven't gotten any SITREPS from the unions since it was voted in. Anyone else care to comment? I don't know of anyone other than the union chairman in the office and management that even has the slightest hint of a clue of what that elusive contract might even contain.

At this point, I'd just assume walk in their meeting, get a ballot, check "no", walk out and head to the house. If they aren't going to give us a chance to read our contract before their meeting then I just assume start all over. What's another seventeen months? Here's another genius, common-sense idea: If the contract isn't going to be ready before the meetings, why not push the meetings back so we can at least review the thing? Pretty crazy idea, huh? Give us one week to look over the TA for God's sake. What's the rush?

 

[405]

Update

Contract is posted.

Review it carefully and make your own decision.

 

[ShutupandFly]

An eight year contract?!?!?! WTF. And I get to make less money than I would have without the union. Way to go TWU.

 

[Gimpy]

If the contract is 8 years, then I would reccomend you vote no just on that alone. It seems that the new buzzword these days is "RFP". All the majors are shortening the contracts with there regional carriers to shorter and shorter time periods. Why would you want a contract that is a lot longer than your company potentially has business strategy for? 8 years in this enviornment is an absolute eternity. If your company wants a quick ratification I'd throw it back and say then you only want the first contract for a year. That way you get to see how it works and then negotiate for a much better contract the second go round.

 

[405]

If the contract is 8 years, then I would reccomend you vote no just on that alone. It seems that the new buzzword these days is "RFP". All the majors are shortening the contracts with there regional carriers to shorter and shorter time periods. Why would you want a contract that is a lot longer than your company potentially has business strategy for? 8 years in this enviornment is an absolute eternity. If your company wants a quick ratification I'd throw it back and say then you only want the first contract for a year. That way you get to see how it works and then negotiate for a much better contract the second go round.

I agree, Gimpy.

If anyone in this office is even actually comtemplating ratifying this TA then I feel they need to have their head examined. There is NOTHING in this contract that is even remotely beneficial for our workgroup in my opinion. However, as I said in my last post - make your own decision. Make it wisely though because this is an eight year contract as ShutupandFly stated. That is an eternity in airline time.

 

[homerjdispatch]

just curious....

What would starting pay be?

 

[DispaccioDaddyO]

12.63/hr... starting pay now is 12.88

This TA is total garbage and I also hope no one is seriously thinking about ratifying it.

 

[homerjdispatch]

WOW that sucks....Paycut and all...where do they make up for it?

 

[XPOO]

Emphatically vote no and start passing out PAFCA fliers. This helped remedy our situation. Goodbye TWU and hello PAFCA.