New Contract

[Occam's Razor]

What terms? There were no terms. It was our employee handbook in legal language. It was nothing new. We waited a year and a half for this?

The language in the TA you rejected is your starting point. If that was your existing handbook...fine. Start there.

There have been plenty of occasions where maintain and codifiying the status quo is a good deal. I'd have gladly voted for the status quo last year!

We might work with them if they let us know what's going on next time. A year and a half of unanswered questions doesn't really make us trust them that much.

Sounds like a "people" issue and not a "process" issue. If so, work on that one too. How are your reps recalled? How do you elect reps to replace them?

Is it supposed to be easy to get a copy of the TWU ByLaws? They're not on our local's web site. I found them eventually though on Local 665 1/2's web site or something like that.

Good! You have them in-hand.

You have an answer for everything so...

Only to the extend some folks have a complaint about everything, yet no willingness to do anything about it.

What is CLC? How many releases do NWA dispatchers do on an average day? These are bonus questions for you Razor.

1. Central Load Control
2. Don't know...don't care. Their work rules are in a contract, which may only be modified with their consent. [If you believe a direct comparison with NWA is germane, can you compare the size of the two operations...NWA and yours?]
3. What'd I win?

 

[Morning Wood]

Emphatically vote no and start passing out PAFCA fliers. This helped remedy our situation. Goodbye TWU and hello PAFCA.

There were no flyers. There was a poll on a bulletin board and people surfing PAFCA's website on company computers. A lot of idle threats from a workgroup, the majority of which have never been in a union or have the slightest idea how one works. If it was that simple to threaten the company, why have the pilots not gotten anywhere by actually passing out cards every couple years?

If you think that this "threat" from a few loud voices was what turned the tide, I think you are sadly mistaken.

 

[XPOO]

My previous statement was taken as a generalization. However, I still find it oddly strange that the 'new' proposal was hammered out in record time and coincided with PAFCA rumblings on the company intranet. Coincidences, I guess.

 

[405]

Razor, your continued input isn't needed. You won a turd by the way.

Are you bored with the Major's board?

I don't sit in your 500 MPH seat and pretend to know what's going on so therefore you should just stay in your area of expertise and stop spewing forth your "knowledge" or experience with your unions. If your union works for you, congratulations. Well done, sir. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe unions aren't for every employee group?

You have said more than once that you don't care about the workload we have to deal with so I think you can STFU now. You're only looking at everything from a pilot perspective. Thanks for your opinion but you can disappear at anytime.

I'll miss you about this much: (squeeze that index finger and thumb together)

Buh bye.

 

[Morning Wood]

My previous statement was taken as a generalization. However, I still find it oddly strange that the 'new' proposal was hammered out in record time and coincided with PAFCA rumblings on the company intranet. Coincidences, I guess.

Yes. BH has never let the pilots walk over him. I don't think he's going to let a group of 100 dispatchers do it either.

 

[NotEnoughHrs]

There were no flyers. There was a poll on a bulletin board and people surfing PAFCA's website on company computers. A lot of idle threats from a workgroup, the majority of which have never been in a union or have the slightest idea how one works. If it was that simple to threaten the company, why have the pilots not gotten anywhere by actually passing out cards every couple years?

If you think that this "threat" from a few loud voices was what turned the tide, I think you are sadly mistaken.

I would have to agree that the PAFCA poll had nothing to do with SKW dispatchers getting a raise.

But of course you would not want a union to be on property at SkyWest, being in management.

Also, 60% is not a few.

 

[XPOO]

Ok, NotEnoughHours, please tell us what the reason was that SkyWest dispatchers DID get a raise. I'm very interested to hear this.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Sky west dispatchers. Let me give you a little warning just in case your thinking about letting a union get there claws into you. When they are trying to get you to vote them in they will tell you anything you want to hear. The fact of the matter is they can't force the company to do anything. They can tell you they can get you a higher pay scale, doesn't mean it's going to happen. They can tell you the company can still give you raises while you negotiate your first contract, the company won't.. They can tell you they can get Jepp plates on every desk, don't count on it. They can tell you they will get you 10 hr pay for holidays, slight chance. The only thing you can count on is they will try to sell you on whatever POS they come up with so they can start taking money out of your check. Keep in mind, unions are big buissness now and there only priority is to get as many people kicking money up to them as they can. I have worked for two union shops so I have a good idea of what I am talking about.

 

[Morning Wood]

I would have to agree that the PAFCA poll had nothing to do with SKW dispatchers getting a raise.

But of course you would not want a union to be on property at SkyWest, being in management.

Also, 60% is not a few.

Management? I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion simply because I told someone they didn't get a raise by threatening union. You are right, I don't want a union here because I have previous experience with unions. Do you? How many of those that voted yes did so because of emotions and don't have the slightest idea about how unions function? How many voted yes because some of the more bitter, influential people were pushing this?

Your 60% needs to be examined a little closer too. 60% of the people did not vote yes. 60% of the people that bothered to vote said yes. 26 of 76 people in the office. That isn't even enough people for the NMB to certify a vote. Take the poll again since this raise went through and it would probably be less than 26 this time.

 

[XPOO]

Shutupandfly

Thanks for looking out. Update: SkyWest Dispatch - Still not Unionized.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Sky west dispatchers. Let me give you a little warning just in case your thinking about letting a union get there claws into you. When they are trying to get you to vote them in they will tell you anything you want to hear. The fact of the matter is they can't force the company to do anything. They can tell you they can get you a higher pay scale, doesn't mean it's going to happen. They can tell you the company can still give you raises while you negotiate your first contract, the company won't.. They can tell you they can get Jepp plates on every desk, don't count on it. They can tell you they will get you 10 hr pay for holidays, slight chance. The only thing you can count on is they will try to sell you on whatever POS they come up with so they can start taking money out of your check. Keep in mind, unions are big buissness now and there only priority is to get as many people kicking money up to them as they can. I have worked for two union shops so I have a good idea of what I am talking about.

We dont really need a union at SkyWest... We just got a $1.00 raise across the board and 2% increases to base pay next 2 years (plus everyones pay goes up on thier anniversaries each year). We get paid 100% for vacation and user days. We have electronic jepps at every desk. In general, management does treat us fairly. Sure there are problems, but I doubt a union would fix any of that.

We have an "association" -SADA- made up of current dispatchers elected yearly that negotiates with management for our pay and work rules. They should be commended on the recent negotiations. Best of all, it costs us nothing.

We are hiring and growing.....send an application over!


Oh yeah...we dont get 10 hours pay on holidays. the company pays all other employees (exception..crews) for 8 hours. Why should we be any different. We all work 40 hour workweeks, so 8 hours for a 4 10 hour day employee is the same percentage as a 5 8 hour day employee.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Razor, your continued input isn't needed. You won a turd by the way.

Woo Hoo! I turd from a whiny dispatcher!

Are you bored with the Major's board?

Not at all! I was actually reading this post you made on the Major's board. Umm...do you work for a Major?

WARNING! Hypocrisy on this thread is closer than it appears!

I don't sit in your 500 MPH seat and pretend to know what's going on so therefore you should just stay in your area of expertise and stop spewing forth your "knowledge" or experience with your unions.

non sequiter

The subject was "contracts", and I happen to know quite a bit about them. I'd venture I know know more than you do about them. I'll concede that I don't know the depths of your frustration, but I've reached a conclusion of your ability to deal with it.

Tough times don't build character, they reveal it.

I sincerely hope it works out for you, and have offered some suggestions. I also recognize that my input to you is (ironically) like a dispatcher's input to a captain during a flight: Sometimes helpful...sometimes not.

If your union works for you, congratulations. Well done, sir. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe unions aren't for every employee group?

Sure! Have I suggested otherwise? It appears that you have a union, so it's not really a question about whether they are "for" you...is it? I have a lot of knowledge about how they work, and what they are required to do for their members. You can delete my "ACARS messages" if you choose.

You have said more than once that you don't care about the workload we have to deal with so I think you can STFU now.

"STFU"? Stand Tall For Unions?

BROTHER!

You're only looking at everything from a pilot perspective. Thanks for your opinion but you can disappear at anytime.

And you're only looking at it from a dispatcher's perspective...with no experience of being in a union, or how contracts are negotiated and ratified.

I'll miss you about this much: (squeeze that index finger and thumb together)

Nah. You'll respond. See?

 

[SKC]

"STFU"? Stand Tall For Unions?

I don't care who you are, that was hilarious.

 

[405]

Nah. You'll respond. See?

Of course I'll respond. I like friendly conversation with someone inferior to me that thinks dispatchers are worthless. If you REALLY knew the situation in this office, you be a "whiny dispatcher" too. You're not though.

Your "solutions" are worthless. Thanks for playing.

 

[405]

I'm back up to 65 releases a day and doing my own CLC. There's no comparison to NWA dispatchers because they don't do that much work. Do you really think the TWU is going to help us out there, Razor? Twist that up and dissect it any way you want to but that's B.S. I don't care what you say.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'm back up to 65 releases a day and doing my own CLC. There's no comparison to NWA dispatchers because they don't do that much work. Do you really think the TWU is going to help us out there, Razor? Twist that up and dissect it any way you want to but that's B.S. I don't care what you say.

Wow! Sounds like a heavy load.

Here are some options:

1. Walk into your bosses office by yourself and tell him/her that the workload is total BS, and you want it fixed!

2. Have all the dispatchers at your company walk into the office and tell him/her that the workload is total BS, and you all want it fixed.

Which method do you reckon would get their attention more?

That is the concept behind...wait for it....collective bargaining.

Certainly it's not quite that simple, since our good friends in the government think the Railway Labor Act is a fair way to ensure that managements get to play the white pieces...while your side plays the black. There are also inherent challenges with any organization that must collectively assign priorities to issues. You may value workload higher than your collegues do. Or it could be pay.

It's not easy, and it's not particularly fun. I've had to walk off my job with 100% of my collegues when my management didn't listen when we used method #2. After 15-days of no flight ops, we got the contract we wanted.

The success of your efforts will depend on the skills of your union leadership, and the degree to which your rank-and-file participate in the process. Union leaders won't tell you what's going on?

Fire 'em! NOW!

To do that you're gonna have to get engaged in the process...even if you don't like it.

Or you can just whine about it.

Your call.

 

[shooter]

I'm back up to 65 releases a day and doing my own CLC. There's no comparison to NWA dispatchers because they don't do that much work. Do you really think the TWU is going to help us out there, Razor? Twist that up and dissect it any way you want to but that's B.S. I don't care what you say.

65 a day, but how many in the air at one time? If you feel there is a safety issue with your work load you take it to your dept manager and if nothing gets done go to the FAA. Safety is above all else in our job, so speak up.

I don't know if a union would, could or should do anything about your work load if it is a safety concern, but I will say that O.Razor is an intelligent individual and while you may not agree with him, you should not disrespect him either. He does not hold a vote card in your office and is just sharing his views of what a union has done for him. Go ask the Delta Dispatchers why they formed PAFCA in the first place if you do not want a pilot’s opinion. There is great amount of Dispatch knowledge in that office, unless they all have retired.

I will take this space to tell you that yes, there are companies that do not need unions because the company treats them well. And then there are some that needed a union when the company first released an aircraft. JMHO

 

[XPOO]

Hey shooter,

Hey, why don't I just got and eat some hay. I can lay by the bay, make things out of clay, I just may, what do ya say?

 

[shooter]

Hey shooter,

Hey, why don't I just got and eat some hay. I can lay by the bay, make things out of clay, I just may, what do ya say?

okay Happy, whatever you say. making the assumption shooter is from that movie is like making the assumption you are a former piece of poo.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Go ask the Delta Dispatchers why they formed PAFCA in the first place if you do not want a pilot’s opinion.

This is the point 405 and I have been making all along. This office never needed a union. The problems in this office are of the kind unions can do nothing about. No dispatch office is perfect. We are not Delta, I don't care why they formed there union. The only office I am going to worry about is mine and for the past year and a half I have not recived any raises or bonus so the union could give me a TA with less money and time off than I had before they started negotiating.