New Colgan Pay Scale

[CoolSidePillow]

I have been watching CJC simply because I spent time there and have friends there. In this industry you need to have a glass is half full approach otherwise you spend too much time being bitter. OK, simple fact that everyone knows...... LIFE CAN ALWAYS BE BETTER. That is like a universal truth but how much time do you want to spend being upset about a job? A job that you CHOSE to pursue and most people at the regional level chose to do post 9/11 when it was known how ********************ty the industry was. Yes CJC pays low. Is this a surprise to anyone? Did you honestly think it was going to be some industry leading payscale? I actually thought it was going to be less. EXPECT THE WORST HOPE FOR THE BEST. It leads to less disappointment. I dont think that T-prop and jet pay are compared at all. Two different animals. There is no real industry standard. MESA Dash pilots get paid much less than CJC Saab captains for similiar aircraft. Mesaba and Eagle Captains get paid more for same aircraft. Horizon pays 6 dollars less for the Q400 than the CR700 and they are same seat capacity. Shupublwipemyassqua pays 3 dollars less for 70 seat jet than Express jet does on 50 seat jet. They also pay less than Whisky. CJC now pays 5 dollars less on a 70 seat t-prop than a 70 seat jet. As stated before Horizon pays 6 dollars less for same comparison. Yes they pay more in general but still less for same capacity. That t-prop is going to go less than 500 miles where as the jet will go halfway across country. Senior Captains that live at base and are too far too drive from EWR wont commute. Some wouldnt have commuted even if pay was abit higher. Time away from home an cost of crash pad would negate the raise. Since CJC is still mostly in Northeast a good number of pilots went there because of that. So the Q is really going to benefit the guys that are either driving distance to EWR or very short one leg commute to EWR. These will be overnights and some in Canada. Everyone should know how well scehduling handles hotel accomodations.If you are home with family everynight..... most will stay put. So look at the good. The FOs finally got more money. Who cares if it was to stop the exodus or because they care about QOL. The fact is.... there is more money for FOs. Remember this is still a job and just a job. Relax.... dont do anything to get killed in the air..... go home and bang your wife. If she isnt hot.... divorce her and marry a hot one. Even better get a hot nymph gf who makes real good money. It keeps me smiling in the darkness of the aviation industry.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I'll raise my glass to that... Well put CSP!

 

[JT12345]

The CRJ is faster and may have a greater range than the Q400. Pay is not just based on seats, but also on miles per hour and range.

 

[pilotdiscretion]

Pay is not just based on seats, but also on miles per hour and range.

Pay rates have nothing to do with the number of seats, cruising speed or endurance. It's all depends on the amount of negotiating power you have.

 

[YMICFI]

Negotiating

Pay rates have nothing to do with the number of seats, cruising speed or endurance. It's all depends on the amount of negotiating power you have.

Agreed. The only way that comes is from being represented by a union then through collective bargaining. Colganites...ALPA NOW!

 

[Prop2Jet]

Best thing I have ever heard on this website is from CSP above. Nice one mate!

 

[suupah]

q 400's are more profitable than 50 or 70 seat rj's or they would have used 50 or 70 seat rj's. so the slice of the pie is bigger for manag ment and smaller for us pilotos.

 

[pilotdiscretion]

Could someone post the actual pay rates for all years of service. The only one that has been mentioned is first year CA pay.

 

[JT12345]

Ok, ok,

a lot of pilot groups use formulas to figure out different pay for a new aircraft type especially during mid-contract. NWA, Delta, Continental, Fredex use numbers like aircraft capacity, range and speed.

Good point about negotiations, but how does an employer, and employee group figure all these numbers out. Do they negotiate every single number on those pay charts for contract year and longevity ( that would take forever) or do they come up with a formula to base it on then maybe tweak a few numbers here and there like 1st year pay for FOs!

 

[Mr Wu]

Could someone post the actual pay rates for all years of service. The only one that has been mentioned is first year CA pay.

New pay scale will be up on APC soon.

 

[Smarta$$]

Best thing I have ever heard on this website is from CSP above. Nice one mate!

There was nother great about his message. Basically he says, who cares if colgan pays shat on the Q400 because that is all regoinal pilots are worth.

Otherwise he would have said, "Yes the pay should be higher".

 

[I ROCK]

Colgan rules!

 

[suupah]

Basically they don't care if we don't like it. they will hire street captains from the like of great lakes, sky way or big sky. for them it is a huge jump in pay. oh well.

 

[dingo222]

true dat, true dat

 

[Beech Balls]

WAIT WAIT WAIT......HOLD EVERYTHING>
Am I the only one that noticed that within the NEW payscale, there has actually been a change on the 3rd and 4th year Beech and Saab CAPT pay?
As it turns out, the increase is only 1.50, instead of the full 2 dollars. So they have actually decreased it by .50.....bastards.

And it appears to be the same on the Saab.....So, a slight decrease in the pay, just to have them pull some crazy-assed Q400 payscale? What a load of Poo. I am dissapointed, wish I could say something, but I won't because my life will become Hell.....
I am about to start my fourth year here at Pinnacolaggan Airlines, and must say that Q400s are cool, but dear God, this insanity has reached a new low.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get a union in here NOW!

 

[redflyer65]

Might be just the motivation you guys needed. Thanks to Uncle Phil! At least with a union prior to the Q400 announcement would have forced the company to the bargaining table instead of just ramming a crappy payscale down your throats. Stand united guys!

 

[ifly34]

WAIT WAIT WAIT......HOLD EVERYTHING>
Am I the only one that noticed that within the NEW payscale, there has actually been a change on the 3rd and 4th year Beech and Saab CAPT pay?
As it turns out, the increase is only 1.50, instead of the full 2 dollars. So they have actually decreased it by .50.....bastards.

And it appears to be the same on the Saab.....So, a slight decrease in the pay, just to have them pull some crazy-assed Q400 payscale? What a load of Poo. I am dissapointed, wish I could say something, but I won't because my life will become Hell.....
I am about to start my fourth year here at Pinnacolaggan Airlines, and must say that Q400s are cool, but dear God, this insanity has reached a new low.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get a union in here NOW!

The Captain pay on the Beech and the Saab has only had a $1.50 increase for longevity. FO pay always went up by $2.00.

 

[Mr Wu]

WAIT WAIT WAIT......HOLD EVERYTHING>
Am I the only one that noticed that within the NEW payscale, there has actually been a change on the 3rd and 4th year Beech and Saab CAPT pay?
As it turns out, the increase is only 1.50, instead of the full 2 dollars. So they have actually decreased it by .50.....bastards.

And it appears to be the same on the Saab.....So, a slight decrease in the pay, just to have them pull some crazy-assed Q400 payscale? What a load of Poo. I am dissapointed, wish I could say something, but I won't because my life will become Hell.....
I am about to start my fourth year here at Pinnacolaggan Airlines, and must say that Q400s are cool, but dear God, this insanity has reached a new low.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get a union in here NOW!

Me thinks you are the only one that didn't know the old payscale. Airlinepilotcentral rounds up the .50.

 

[n32jk]

Yup, all the current Beech pilots are screwed, why train newhires to go into an airframe on the way out, that would just increase training costs. As the airframes go, Beech pilots will transition in the order they came in, only to be seat-locked for a year and given a new 6 month training contract.....:smash:

You may be more correct than you know..... When PCL (then exp I) was told to park the J31's by NW, PT was planning on just laying off the J31 pilots. He was livid to find out that the union contract forced him to retrain the pilots and let them bid by seniority. His plan was to lay off Capts and FO's on that equipment regardless of seniority. One of the J31 pilots was in the top 5 in the company and he wanted to "lay him off" cause he did not need him and did not want to retrain on the other equipment. Now "useless union" I hear maligned on this board managed to get that stopped and the J31 Capt's who could not hold Capt on the Saab ended up getting paid J31 Capt pay while sitting in the right seat of the Saab until they could hold it. Without a union I really don't think you can expect much if they park those 1900's.

 

[Lear70]

nobody said we were happy. A union wouldn't have done crap even if they were on property the day we were bought out. A contact takes years to ratify, and we didn't have that luxury.

That's not entirely correct. If you had a union on property WITH a contract in place the day you were purchased, the company would have HAD to negotiate with you on the pay rates for the Q400's or you could have kept them from flying them.

Same thing happened when PCL tried to add 44 seaters and force a lower pay rate. The company was LIVID when they found out they couldn't even OPERATE the aircraft without obtaining a union pay scale for them.

You may be more correct than you know..... When PCL (then exp I) was told to park the J31's by NW, PT was planning on just laying off the J31 pilots. He was livid to find out that the union contract forced him to retrain the pilots and let them bid by seniority. His plan was to lay off Capts and FO's on that equipment regardless of seniority. One of the J31 pilots was in the top 5 in the company and he wanted to "lay him off" cause he did not need him and did not want to retrain on the other equipment. Now "useless union" I hear maligned on this board managed to get that stopped and the J31 Capt's who could not hold Capt on the Saab ended up getting paid J31 Capt pay while sitting in the right seat of the Saab until they could hold it. Without a union I really don't think you can expect much if they park those 1900's.

BINGO!

Good point about negotiations, but how does an employer, and employee group figure all these numbers out. Do they negotiate every single number on those pay charts for contract year and longevity ( that would take forever) or do they come up with a formula to base it on then maybe tweak a few numbers here and there like 1st year pay for FOs!

Depends on whether there is a union on property or not.

If there's not, you take whatever you get, a la' new Colgan pay rates.

If there IS a union, they do as your first example, figure EVERY SINGLE NUMBER on the charts for longevity and COLA. Yes, it takes "forever", usually several years.

It's one of the things management hates about unions: if there's no pay rate for a specific aircraft or seat capacity AND if the REST of the payscales are very specific about seat size or aircraft type, it gives the pilots a HUGE negotiating advantage if the company has already purchased a specific aircraft and THEN has to get a union pay rate to fly it.

Sorry to see you Colganites get the 2nd worst Q-400 pay in the industry, but I can't say I'm hugely surprised.

So far I'm 4 for 4 in predictions since PCL purchased you guys.