New Chq Info

[CHQNewHire]

GUYS, GUYS...THE ABOVE IS NOT THE TA....


It may or may not be the old TA from 3 years ago, so I would settle down a bit.

I think the EC knows that one of the main problem areas is FO pay, so I would not expect them to agree on just a straight 3% bump.

 

[Strikefinder]

I've done some math, and if we got a 3% bump on the old TA rates, we'd beat everybody except Horizon, including ComAir, for captain pay across the board. I'm not sure if that "sucks".

FO pay rates would still be below par, but not much, other than 2nd year, which has always been a problem. Hopefully that's one of the things that will be adjusted accordingly.

Of course, all this is speculation, and even if the pay rates are accurate, I've got to see the work rules before I can make any final decision.

 

[Airpiraterob]

"Schmoke and a pancake?"

as an F/O,

in the interview for CHQ, they went over what the pay rates were. We knew it even before they did the face to face interview.
once training began they told us up front that we were hired to BE captains. an F/O's job is to learn how to be a captain their way. thats the purpose and must be the goal of the F/O.

I'LL BE DAMMED IF I GRIPE AND COMPLAIN AFTER ACCEPTING THIS JOB KNOWING THE PAY BEFOREHAND. ain't professional in any circumstance.

they're looking to train these F/O's as captains. I don't know of a single FO that wants to be a career FO. and they're not going to pay someone career money to be one at CHQ.

1- how long will i be an FO? said to be initially 2.5 years before this furlough happened.
2- what will that upgrade time change into? (after this is over, theres estimates of near 100 a month they want hired and trained)
3- is that something i can withstand till the captain upgrade comes along?

for my future? yes i can take it for the short duration. there's roommates somewhere i can get along with. And once this is in effect......EVERY NEWHIRE WILL KNOW THE PAY RATES TOO BEFORE THEY START AT CHQ. so they also will have nothing to complain about. they know what they're getting into. I did.

theres more to this than pay, theres QOL. go on over to the cargo board and ask those guys what their QOL is.... and then concider the CHQ-QOL and ask yourself what youve got. hell even go ask anyone at BMA what theyve got for a QOL. you've got heaven in comparison. don't like the pay rates? well then go fly cargo for more money if thats all that matters. the cargo QOL sucks a giant penis. you'll have to sew a zipper into the back of your pants too.

yeah theres a chance to change everything with this TA. To what? something that fits you and not the company? not bloody very well likely. theres got to be a balance. Southwest has the best QOL and NOT top pay.....but there they HAVE career FO's and actually will pay them. cause they wont leave tha tcompany...you'd be nuts to.

 

[catIIIc]

I do not think the EMB170 fits into the UALPA scope restrictions, it weighs to much. I think the cap is 75 or 78,000 lbs and the EMB170 is almost 80,000 lbs. The only reason Air whisky can fly the Bae 146 is because UALPA grandfathered them in. I hope they get their new contract, they definately deserve it but I do not think the EMB170 is in the cards. I could be wrong.

 

[Buss_Driver]

Re: "Schmoke and a pancake?"

as an F/O,

in the interview for CHQ, they went over what the pay rates were. We knew it even before they did the face to face interview.

I'LL BE DAMMED IF I GRIPE AND COMPLAIN AFTER ACCEPTING THIS JOB KNOWING THE PAY BEFOREHAND. ain't professional in any circumstance.

Here here, Rob!

Was just gonna lurk on this thread but had to chime in on this one. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I don't think any of us are the types to sell out our brothers (and sisters) just to fly a jet. But we are realists enough to know what it means to pay dues especially in a difficult market. I look at it this way, as long as the TA rates are positive rather than negative (like mgmt may have wanted), we'll come back with better pay than we originally signed on for.

Speaking of QOL, what d'ya think Ron has to say about the disabled coffee maker?

Back to the regularly scheduled rumors,
S

 

[Airpiraterob]

oh it's a no go item! no question about it!

oh, everyone....check this out. a retired airline pilot's destiny
http://www.dazeofourlives.com/020123.htm

 

[TWA Dude]

J4J

So, is Republic still gonna be a USAir J4J conduit?

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Airpirate rob..

who do you fly for? Mesa??

to expect you to do a professional job and not pay you a professional rate...

yes, maybe you are learning, but thats just an excuse...
That your hired just to learn to be capt. thats just an excuse

Until the day the FAA approves Single Pilot RJ operations... the FIrst officer is a necessity.

It would only be professional of you to expect to be paid a professional rate...not something you can retire off of, but something that would give you a QOL that would be representative of your education, training, experience, and most of all responsibility.

 

[Airpiraterob]

i dig the snowman.

no kidding i do.

ok ok ok...nope...no mesa. re-read my post and discover who i work for.

tell me
what do you think is a fair rate that they should pay?
gimme a real number. give me a number that would satisfy you and everyone else in the world.

PAY=QOL ?....total BS.

it affords you something to buy and travel and pizzas every day of the week if you want, but im fine with a nice pastrami sandwich and a book

theres people every day that are able to make it work on less than what you get. you just have to find a way too. again, you knew what you were going to get paid when you started. and youre complaining?

...but it does not give you QOL. work rules and conditions make the biggest QOL difference. compared to my last job, i gave up near 50% in pay. i can promise you that what CHQ has in QOL even in current form is better than what i did have. monumentally better.....with the exception of me being furloughed

 

[embraerjetpilot]

I did read your post.. I assume you work here also. Quality of Life issues is everything too. Just wait till you try getting off for someones wedding that you couldnt bid off.

Im not saying FOs should make tons of money.. Im not here to make a fortune.. Im here because i love to fly. I miss the days when CHQ was a family... but that is gone.. at least for now...we have grown really fast and are paying some of the consequences.. The flight attendants write each other up for leaving one piece of trash deep in a seat pocket, and the other day I got a dirty look for asking the next flight attendant for helping ours out.

Quality of life is everything... but i can have 18 days off a monhth and no money or money and 10 days off a month... there has to be a balance.

You want a number, i think it should be possible for a first year FO to make 25 (overtime included).

There you go.

 

[big dog1]

What's Rosa Mosely fax. Thanks

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Think of it this way...

WHAT IF... all of the growth at Chautauqua came to a stop.
WHAT IF... US Airways terminated your codeshare.
WHAT IF... United liquidated
WHAT IF... The Embraer was grounded due to an AD
WHAT IF... the majors didn't hire for 10 years and all attrition at Chautauqua came to a stop.
WHAT IF... there were another terrorist attack and in the struggling industry there was no movement.

WHAT IF...

There are a lot of reasons why you might be an F/O for more than just a year or three.

Yes, you knew the payrates when you took the job. Since then you have developed into a valuable part of the Chautauqua Airlines family. They need you. Your skills have value regardless of WHICH seat you sit in. There are major-airline furloughees who have accepted employment with Chautauqua. THEIR skills and experience has value.

There are many things which could happen which could force you to remain a first officer for a long, long time.

Look, for example at US Airways where pilots have been F/Os for over 20 years.

Look, for example at Comair where 2004 delivery projections along with attrition projections have raised Captain upgrade time for newhires to 5 - 7 years.

It's great that you folks are proud to work for your company -- but don't sell yourselves short. Your experience and your skill and professionalism have VALUE to Chautauqua. It's one of the things that makes the company as succesful as it is.

You deserve to be compensated for all of the attributes you bring to the company.

Don't be caught with your pants down when one of those "WHAT IF"s happens and, after 7 years as an F/O you wonder why you can't afford to buy a home or feed your family.

You're an airline pilot. Defend your profession.

 

[Strikefinder]

Just playing the devil's advocate here:

Once again, if we got a 3% hike on the failed TA wages, our first year pay at CHQ would be higher than everybody's except ComAir, AirWhiskey and Horizon, and in the former two cases, by less than fifty cents an hour. Second year pay has always been the lag for us, where we lag behind most.

If anybody is wondering, I'm working on $22, 900 this year as a first year FO @ 19.96 an hour. I've dropped something along the lines of 27 hours, which would add another $500 or so to that number. That includes per diem, and anyone who knows me knows that I don't do overnights if I can, and I have never done overtime. 3% higher than failed TA pay would be 22.03, which would add another $1800 or so to the first year tab, which would bring you darned close to $25,000.

Granted, all of us are still miffed about 2nd year pay, which is less than pretty much everybody's, even assuming the numbers we're assuming. But there's a lot of other variables that are there to consider, and I won't lose any sleep at night if we have industry leading captain rates, good work rules, and an otherwise fair compensation package but come up short on 2nd year FO pay. Keep in mind that every day we don't sign a contract, we're losing pay, and it takes an exponentially larger raise the longer we delay to make up for the time spent negotiating.

Don't get me wrong, folks. I'm as committed as anyone to getting a good contract, and if the TA gets voted down (if there is one) and CHQ decides to walk, I'll be the first one out on the line. I'm just trying to be somewhat analytical about the process and see how everyone else reacts.

 

[Airpiraterob]

yeah youre right...

$25 is acceptable.
good number embraerjetpilot.
furloughedagain youre right i cant get shortsighted, theres the temptation to do that like the punk-kid i am....

i gotta look at it from all kinds of perspectives tho and not just mine. For the business savvy these days, it's all kinds of fashionable to squeeze the lemmon for 125% juice. Apparently weve reached the ultimate limit on what you can get from squeezing (the rind), and since no more can be gotten, the first thing before realization is to squeeze harder, then reduce workforce and make everyone else take the extra work. Then whats left? grumpy poor workers.

prices for growth. remember the good ole days of TWA when the pilots were talking about their love for flying in the terminal walking to their gate? a job people love and cant wait to do. i wanted to do that. Then carl ichan entered and squeezed the lemmon and thats when i stopped hearing about their love of flying. they just didnt talk anymore about anything flying, just money and time spent away...etc...occasional mumbling about work.

is that whats starting to happen here?

y'all are right about the 2nd year. usually its the 1st year thats supposed to ultimately suck, not the 2nd. they got it backward. if they want 20 for year 1, then they outta give out 28 or 30 for year 2 at the least. thats reasonable i think. follows in line with the jump majors give. keeps people happy, and keeps the FO reasonably poor like they want but not destitute like before.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

You're not a punk kid Rob.

No punk kid would've survived night-freight in a Bandit like you did.

What you are is a very enthusiastic, very thankful newhire.

Nothing wrong with that. Just want you to remember that being an F/O is not a means to an end -- it is an important job. The airline needs you whether they choose to acknowledge it or not.

For many of us -- and possibly even for you -- the right-seat will be home for many years.

So why not make it a nice place to sit? I agree. Probationary pay is fine -- I can understand that. But from year-two on they need to pay you a reasonable salary for the position that you hold.

A strong desire to upgrade is natural. Remembering that a first-officer is an honorable position as well --- sometimes that takes a bit of work.

Defend your profession.