New Chq Info

[Airpiraterob]

oh it's a no go item! no question about it!

oh, everyone....check this out. a retired airline pilot's destiny
http://www.dazeofourlives.com/020123.htm

 

[TWA Dude]

J4J

So, is Republic still gonna be a USAir J4J conduit?

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Airpirate rob..

who do you fly for? Mesa??

to expect you to do a professional job and not pay you a professional rate...

yes, maybe you are learning, but thats just an excuse...
That your hired just to learn to be capt. thats just an excuse

Until the day the FAA approves Single Pilot RJ operations... the FIrst officer is a necessity.

It would only be professional of you to expect to be paid a professional rate...not something you can retire off of, but something that would give you a QOL that would be representative of your education, training, experience, and most of all responsibility.

 

[Airpiraterob]

i dig the snowman.

no kidding i do.

ok ok ok...nope...no mesa. re-read my post and discover who i work for.

tell me
what do you think is a fair rate that they should pay?
gimme a real number. give me a number that would satisfy you and everyone else in the world.

PAY=QOL ?....total BS.

it affords you something to buy and travel and pizzas every day of the week if you want, but im fine with a nice pastrami sandwich and a book

theres people every day that are able to make it work on less than what you get. you just have to find a way too. again, you knew what you were going to get paid when you started. and youre complaining?

...but it does not give you QOL. work rules and conditions make the biggest QOL difference. compared to my last job, i gave up near 50% in pay. i can promise you that what CHQ has in QOL even in current form is better than what i did have. monumentally better.....with the exception of me being furloughed

 

[embraerjetpilot]

I did read your post.. I assume you work here also. Quality of Life issues is everything too. Just wait till you try getting off for someones wedding that you couldnt bid off.

Im not saying FOs should make tons of money.. Im not here to make a fortune.. Im here because i love to fly. I miss the days when CHQ was a family... but that is gone.. at least for now...we have grown really fast and are paying some of the consequences.. The flight attendants write each other up for leaving one piece of trash deep in a seat pocket, and the other day I got a dirty look for asking the next flight attendant for helping ours out.

Quality of life is everything... but i can have 18 days off a monhth and no money or money and 10 days off a month... there has to be a balance.

You want a number, i think it should be possible for a first year FO to make 25 (overtime included).

There you go.

 

[big dog1]

What's Rosa Mosely fax. Thanks

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Think of it this way...

WHAT IF... all of the growth at Chautauqua came to a stop.
WHAT IF... US Airways terminated your codeshare.
WHAT IF... United liquidated
WHAT IF... The Embraer was grounded due to an AD
WHAT IF... the majors didn't hire for 10 years and all attrition at Chautauqua came to a stop.
WHAT IF... there were another terrorist attack and in the struggling industry there was no movement.

WHAT IF...

There are a lot of reasons why you might be an F/O for more than just a year or three.

Yes, you knew the payrates when you took the job. Since then you have developed into a valuable part of the Chautauqua Airlines family. They need you. Your skills have value regardless of WHICH seat you sit in. There are major-airline furloughees who have accepted employment with Chautauqua. THEIR skills and experience has value.

There are many things which could happen which could force you to remain a first officer for a long, long time.

Look, for example at US Airways where pilots have been F/Os for over 20 years.

Look, for example at Comair where 2004 delivery projections along with attrition projections have raised Captain upgrade time for newhires to 5 - 7 years.

It's great that you folks are proud to work for your company -- but don't sell yourselves short. Your experience and your skill and professionalism have VALUE to Chautauqua. It's one of the things that makes the company as succesful as it is.

You deserve to be compensated for all of the attributes you bring to the company.

Don't be caught with your pants down when one of those "WHAT IF"s happens and, after 7 years as an F/O you wonder why you can't afford to buy a home or feed your family.

You're an airline pilot. Defend your profession.

 

[Strikefinder]

Just playing the devil's advocate here:

Once again, if we got a 3% hike on the failed TA wages, our first year pay at CHQ would be higher than everybody's except ComAir, AirWhiskey and Horizon, and in the former two cases, by less than fifty cents an hour. Second year pay has always been the lag for us, where we lag behind most.

If anybody is wondering, I'm working on $22, 900 this year as a first year FO @ 19.96 an hour. I've dropped something along the lines of 27 hours, which would add another $500 or so to that number. That includes per diem, and anyone who knows me knows that I don't do overnights if I can, and I have never done overtime. 3% higher than failed TA pay would be 22.03, which would add another $1800 or so to the first year tab, which would bring you darned close to $25,000.

Granted, all of us are still miffed about 2nd year pay, which is less than pretty much everybody's, even assuming the numbers we're assuming. But there's a lot of other variables that are there to consider, and I won't lose any sleep at night if we have industry leading captain rates, good work rules, and an otherwise fair compensation package but come up short on 2nd year FO pay. Keep in mind that every day we don't sign a contract, we're losing pay, and it takes an exponentially larger raise the longer we delay to make up for the time spent negotiating.

Don't get me wrong, folks. I'm as committed as anyone to getting a good contract, and if the TA gets voted down (if there is one) and CHQ decides to walk, I'll be the first one out on the line. I'm just trying to be somewhat analytical about the process and see how everyone else reacts.

 

[Airpiraterob]

yeah youre right...

$25 is acceptable.
good number embraerjetpilot.
furloughedagain youre right i cant get shortsighted, theres the temptation to do that like the punk-kid i am....

i gotta look at it from all kinds of perspectives tho and not just mine. For the business savvy these days, it's all kinds of fashionable to squeeze the lemmon for 125% juice. Apparently weve reached the ultimate limit on what you can get from squeezing (the rind), and since no more can be gotten, the first thing before realization is to squeeze harder, then reduce workforce and make everyone else take the extra work. Then whats left? grumpy poor workers.

prices for growth. remember the good ole days of TWA when the pilots were talking about their love for flying in the terminal walking to their gate? a job people love and cant wait to do. i wanted to do that. Then carl ichan entered and squeezed the lemmon and thats when i stopped hearing about their love of flying. they just didnt talk anymore about anything flying, just money and time spent away...etc...occasional mumbling about work.

is that whats starting to happen here?

y'all are right about the 2nd year. usually its the 1st year thats supposed to ultimately suck, not the 2nd. they got it backward. if they want 20 for year 1, then they outta give out 28 or 30 for year 2 at the least. thats reasonable i think. follows in line with the jump majors give. keeps people happy, and keeps the FO reasonably poor like they want but not destitute like before.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

You're not a punk kid Rob.

No punk kid would've survived night-freight in a Bandit like you did.

What you are is a very enthusiastic, very thankful newhire.

Nothing wrong with that. Just want you to remember that being an F/O is not a means to an end -- it is an important job. The airline needs you whether they choose to acknowledge it or not.

For many of us -- and possibly even for you -- the right-seat will be home for many years.

So why not make it a nice place to sit? I agree. Probationary pay is fine -- I can understand that. But from year-two on they need to pay you a reasonable salary for the position that you hold.

A strong desire to upgrade is natural. Remembering that a first-officer is an honorable position as well --- sometimes that takes a bit of work.

Defend your profession.

 

[bandit110]

[

No punk kid would've survived night-freight in a Bandit like you did.

I'm a punk kid, I hope I survive.

 

[General Lee]

This kind of reminds me of the Skywest vote----most of the guys (52%) voted for expansion rather than new pay for the 70 seater. Now they think they will re-negotiate in 18 months, when in reality it will be the NORM in 18 months, and Skywest will state that they have to stay COMPETITIVE. The urge to upgrade will hurt a lot of people in the middle or at the bottom.(future hires)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Airpiraterob]

enough of this...

accidentally hijacked the thread!...oops.
so on with the show!

its friday morning in a few hours.....lets hear whats new with the TA!

 

[BE90CPT]

Well here is the latest...

1. BB is throwing his hat into the political ring. He will be running for govenor of bot IN and CA. He said, "Why not run both just like I run my airline. Cheap, Cheap, Cheap." Asked for a reply Arnold Schwartzenneter said, "Bring him on, I'll be back."

2. The TA that is to be announced today has been postponed due to the fact that Dorothy is stuck in Kansas trying to locate both her bicycle and dog.

3. Also just released, the UAL deal between Air Whiskey and CHQ will be decided by a tug-of-war match between both companies managment. They were going to use mud wrestling but decided that BB was too good at slinging mud.

4. You folks will believe anything you read here... that was the entire purpose of this thread!!!!!

Have a great weekend!

 

[surplus1]

Remembering that a first-officer is an honorable position as well --- sometimes that takes a bit of work.

Defend your profession.

Nope, no work involved. Were it not for the expertise of my many FO's and FE's over the years, I probably wouldn't be here to bother you guys.

Except for the probationary year, the FO is not only a valuable but and essential member of the crew. NOTHING worth while can happen without him/her. This isn't a flight school, nor is it a PIC factory. An FO is a fully qualified and competent pilot (or he/she should not be in the seat). Compensation should not be less than 60% of the CA pay (in small aircraft like these).

A separate question for some of you:

WHY do you guys include perdiem in calculating your pay? Per diem is NOT compensation and it is NOT part of your pay. Per diem is the reimbursement of expenses (that your job requires you to incur). It should NEVER be included as "compensation" in your thinking. That is why per diem that does not exceed CONUS rates (domestic flying) is not taxable. It is NOT earnings, it is reimbursement. Don't upset that apple cart. It's not in your best interest.

Second - If your book rate is $20/hr, you can't possibly earn more than 20K in basic pay. Since your "guarantee" is not likely to be 83.3 hrs/mo, your pay will be less than 20K. Money that you get from other sources (like open time, which may be at premium rates) should be considered separately (you do special things to get it and it's not part of your basic pay). Whatever the "fair wage" is in your mind should equal the rate x guarantee hours x 12. That is what you "know" your minimum gross will be and the acceptable rate should be determined accordingly.

Here's hoping your TA will be stellar whenever you get one.

PS. For what it's worth the Federal Govt. places the poverty threshold at $18,400 per annum (and does not presume that your permanent residence is a crash pad).

 

[jdog78]

New Poll

Who thinks BE90CPT likes to take it up the a$$?
Yes?
No?

Dude, I hope you enjoyed getting your tiny little nuts off on that one. There are CHQ pilots and flight attendants who (used to)view this board as a legitimate source of infomation and some clown like you comes along and passes on some $hit like that. Get a life.

-j

 

[Strikefinder]

Well, again, to play the devil's advocate, my per diem is a part of my compensation, at least according to the federal government, as I never do overnights if I can avoid it. I understand that's not true for anyone, but I can easily pack a lunch (and often do) and not spend a penny on living expenses outside of base. While I understand both your point and the concept, the reality is that there are a lot of jobs out there where you don't get paid a per diem, and I was gone just as long or longer from home. To be fair, it should be at least acknowledged, and differences in per diem need to be addressed as well. In any case, I included the fact since nobody had set criteria for the number that was quoted, and I wanted to make sure there were no illusions about the numbers that I came up with.

If you want the numbers, just for grins, my total per diem for this year so far is $1664.84, of which $892 is non-taxable. I estimate I'll see another $810 taxable dollars this year, making my total per diem take about $2400. You may adjust my quoted numbers accordingly.

Setting all of this aside, I think it's a pretty moot point to argue about what an FO is worth. It's easy to say that we're all worth $50,000, quoting training and experience as the rationale, but the system doesn't work that way. If every other carrier pays their first officers $21 an hour, "fair", in my book, falls pretty close to that number. If you can get $22 or $23, then great. You're not going to see $35, at least not right away. At the same time, $19 is not fair. As was said in another thread, if Chautauqua achieves a pay scale that is competitive with, say, ComAir, then ASA and CoEx can use us as an example when they go to negotiations. The Chautauqua group has refused and continues to refuse a slide, like many criticize Mesa for doing.

That said, I'm a capatalist, and I know what something is worth doesn't necessarily have anything to do with its cost. Tell the same thing to the computer programmers who I keep seeing in the newspaper who used to make six figures and are being replaced by foreigners who make a third or less of what they did. If you think you can start up an airline and pay your employees twice what everyone else does and still make money, let me know, and I'll apply tomorrow.

 

[FlyingDawg]

Actually I have gotten paid for more than 1,000 hours of flying the last 2 years. If you get paid block or better and you under block that allows you additional flying hours. I average 4 to 5 hours under block every month. In addition I get paid 4 hours per day of vacation I use. I acquire 5.67 hours per month in my vacation bank, allowing me 68 hours per year over the 1,000 hour mark. In addition I get paid for training that doesn't count toward my yearly flying (another 20 hours/year).

The grand total for last year was 1112.3 hours of pay.

Flight pay 1038.7 hours (flew 987.1 + 51.6 under block)
Training 20.0
Deadhead 13.6
Vacation 40.0

 

[TWAACHQPeon]

BE90CAPT,

So just what qualifies you to speculate on our yet to be announced TA? Please qualify yourself. You don't appear to work for CHQ. NO details have been released--only rumors.

How can you possibly come on this board and pretend to know something no CHQ employee knows? It's *#@%*!'s like you that make these boards such a sham. The ONLY reason I bother with coming to this site is because 1. I'm sitting on reserve and am bored beyond belief and 2. I'm an optimist-I keep thinking somebody will one day post something intelligent.

But, I'm just a PEON.

 

[whosyodaddy]

Furloughed CHQ pilots???

Did CHQ furlough pilots not too long ago? And if they did, have they been called back yet or expect to be called back soon?