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New ATP Written Requirements, (what people are missing)

slick1

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Jan 11, 2003
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I think we're all aware that taking the ATP written after July 31, 2014 is going to become a lot more difficult. But I have yet to see anyone key in on this little dagger, buried down deep at the bottom of the FAA's Advisory Circular: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-138.pdf

If you look at Section 19 B, (see below) you'll find that prior to taking the ATP written test, an applicant will be required to complete an approved ATP training course, including a requirement to have 4 hours of training in an FTD AND 6 hours of training in an FFS, ("Full Flight Simultor"), Level C or higher having a minimum MTOW OF 40,000 POUNDS.

Clearly the CRJ and ERJ regionals can incorporate some of that training in their standard new hire training program. But what about the Dash-8-100/200, Saab, EMB-120, and 1900D operators? This is REALLY gonna make it hard for them to recruit pilots.
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Section 19 b. states: "FFS.[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]A Level C or higher FFS qualified under part 60 is required. As part of the evaluation of the FFS training topics and learning objectives, the FAA reviewed all of the approved FFSs under part 60 including the associated weights of the aircraft they represent. Based on that review, the FAA has determined an FFS representing an aircraft with a maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) of at least 40,000 pounds is necessary to meet the objectives of the ATP CTP."
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kmox29

I'm open! I'm open!
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Clearly the CRJ and ERJ regionals can incorporate some of that training in their standard new hire training program. But what about the Dash-8-100/200, Saab, EMB-120, and 1900D operators? This is REALLY gonna make it hard for them to recruit pilots.

That is addressed in 14 CFR Sec. 61.156(c):

Deviation authority. The Administrator may issue deviation authority from the weight requirement in paragraph (b)(1) of this section upon a determination that the objectives of the training can be met in an alternative device.

You can bet that those operators will apply for, and most likely be given, deviations.
 

Golden Falcon

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Instead of ridiculous and irrelevant requirements like these, the FAA should have improved the flt and duty time regulations to include a rest period not less than the previous duty...and applied it to the freight industry as well....the FAA have no issues when it comes to increasing the cost for pilots, but the industry is a whole other matter...and safety take a back seat to all of it...
 

WMUSIGPI

The $100,000,000 Question
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
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Instead of ridiculous and irrelevant requirements like these, the FAA should have improved the flt and duty time regulations to include a rest period not less than the previous duty...and applied it to the freight industry as well....the FAA have no issues when it comes to increasing the cost for pilots, but the industry is a whole other matter...and safety take a back seat to all of it...

In the words of R. Lee Ermey; "Well, no sh!t" The FAA is fraudulently tasked with both the "safety of the industry" and the "profitable promotion of the industry" a complete conflict of interest... Those that paid got what they wanted,,, the freight paid more than the pax....
 

rumpletumbler

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The dash 8 sim was configured to be a 300 when I want through at piedmont. 43,000lbs.
 

PSL

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May 13, 2002
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20K >
I have a question ...

As I scanned a few profiles on Airline Pilot Central, I noticed a few had notes that said a new hire would receive their ATP with a PIC Type Rating in aircraft XYZ?

With the upcoming 1 August 14 change to the ATP, I think it's wonderful the FAR 121 Airlines are providing this level of training to new hires.

Please do not misunderstand the intent of the following ...

I see that the minimums for new hires are in the 1200-1500 TT with the ATP Knowledge Test complete. Unless I am misunderstanding FAR 121 type rating qualifications, that training has to be done from the left seat and pass the same oral we all did when we were issued a type rating.

From this kid's vantage point, that is quite a big piece of 'chaw' to manage as a new hire and at that experience level. Maybe the folks coming up now are ready for a PIC TurboJet/TurboProp type rating at 1500 hours at the FAR 121 level.

So, the question is, will the new hire FO after earning a PIC Type Rating have to do right seat training and pass another PC?

Color me confused and ignorant ...
 

zasca

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Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Posts
539
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12:54
The only extra required training one has to do to be PIC typed, that is on top of normal FO training, is making the guy taxi the airplane with the tiller and a left seat landing. That's it....

For the Feds to allow that guy to be a CAPTAIN, he must do upgrade/captain training as per the FAA approved program at each airline.
 

bailout

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Posts
988
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3.5
I think we're all aware that taking the ATP written after July 31, 2014 is going to become a lot more difficult. But I have yet to see anyone key in on this little dagger, buried down deep at the bottom of the FAA's Advisory Circular: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-138.pdf

If you look at Section 19 B, (see below) you'll find that prior to taking the ATP written test, an applicant will be required to complete an approved ATP training course, including a requirement to have 4 hours of training in an FTD AND 6 hours of training in an FFS, ("Full Flight Simultor"), Level C or higher having a minimum MTOW OF 40,000 POUNDS.

Clearly the CRJ and ERJ regionals can incorporate some of that training in their standard new hire training program. But what about the Dash-8-100/200, Saab, EMB-120, and 1900D operators? This is REALLY gonna make it hard for them to recruit pilots.

Yes, we have covered the weight issue here already, but the part you're missing is that the ATP program CANNOT be part of the standard new hire training. It has to be done BEFORE and separate from that. So how many regionals are going to shell out the extra money for that program? I can tell you that FlightSafety already has a program set up for this so I would guess that it will be a requirement for a potential new hire to get this on their own to be qualified to even apply to a regional!
 

3GRNDWN

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Oct 9, 2011
Posts
32
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000000
And the orals are a joke. At least at my last and current gigs

You're company may have different standards, but my ATP oral was such a "joke" that the captain going through the process with me received a pink slip for not knowing his $h!t. Either he didn't prepare properly, or he shouldn't be in the left seat to begin with. Based on my observation, I'm going with the latter.
 
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