New AT servicep

[ASADFW7]

The process didn't exactly have the end result available to choose from the beginning. To say that the MEC chose that path may be misleading. There were many paths with unknowns in them with the cause and affect of actions and inaction within the decisions and negotiations between all parties. It may be better to describe that both parties ended up with the results we have now as a result of the cumulative process. Though we always do not have the ability to articulate the whole timeline. Not providing context in this case may be adding salt onto the end result further stinging those affected. Neither pilot group in my opinion was in a position to vote down SL-10 as a result of the information presented from the pilot groups and management.

 

[kwick]

The AirTran MEC was told by Gary Kelly et al that if they turned down SL-9 then the SWA pay rates would be taken off the table and not put back. The ATN MEC voting down SL-9 sealed the deal.

They were warned of this and still they chose to give SWA the middle finger.

Double standard? Nope. Just Gary Kelly doing what he told them he would do.

He agreed to mediation and arbitration.

 

[texman]

That's for true.

I do think it's telling though how AA went on a costly slow-down just so the Reno guys wouldn't have one day at B-scale and SWAPA gives GK 3 years.

Be very careful this summer during section 6, how you (we?) play the B scale game. I think it's like scope... hard to put the Genie back in the bottle. Hopefully GK will proceed more honorably than he did with us.

Spud there is a timeline, period. I will be very disappointed if mgt played a game like this.

Being careful only comes through experience. Remember some if not most (5 airlines then SWA) SWA pilots came from other failing carriers to find that nice balance between mgt and the work group.

So if you think this group will say "Hey we will take a pay raise to keep all AT guy's on a B scale". If so, you have the SWA group all wrong.

Is it true that you are on a B scale? Not really. You guy's are not even on our list nor do we represent ALPA or ALPA pilots.

Never the less if we are all patient it will be one list and one pay scale. For the time being vote out ALPA and vote in SWAPA during the transition.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

For the time being vote out ALPA and vote in SWAPA during the transition.

I believe that transition from ALPA is completely in SWAPA's hands until the number of FL ALPA pilots falls below a point that it's not worth ALPA's time.

Sooo, for the time being encourage SWAPA to petition for single representation.

I however believe that SWAPA wants nothing to do with the FL side until they are forced to. They do not want the responsibility for contract enforcement that they have no experience with, let alone having to deal with FAT mgmt (i.e. the BMT).

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

So if you think this group will say "Hey we will take a pay raise to keep all AT guy's on a B scale". If so, you have the SWA group all wrong.
QUOTE]

I hope you're right, however, after seeing the LUV version of the Golden Rule in action, some are not holding thier breath.

BTW, we're not coming from a failing carrier either.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

He agreed to mediation and arbitration.

He did. Yet there was still about a month left to negotiate after your MEC turned down the first agreement.

All parties agreed to go back to the negotiating table. ATN ALPA could have refused but you didn't. AND 85% of your pilots voted for it.

Had you turned it down we would be in arbitration right now. Yet, we are not.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

He did. Yet there was still about a month left to negotiate after your MEC turned down the first agreement.

All parties agreed to go back to the negotiating table. ATN ALPA could have refused but you didn't. AND 85% of your pilots voted for it.

Had you turned it down we would be in arbitration right now. Yet, we are not.

He also intimated that he did not plan on following the PA, that might have affected the votes a little bit.

For those on the outside, the FL pilots were threatened with non-integration if they voted against SL10 while apparently the WN pilots were threatened with implementing an arbitors award should the WN pilots vote against SL10.

Is that correct LeRoy.

 

[PCL_128]

We can blame Gary all we want, but the fact of the matter is, we had an agreement that guaranteed us a right to arbitration, and 85% of our pilots voted not to use it. Whether Gary threatened, made veiled threats, or whatever, it doesn't really matter. We decided on our future.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

He also intimated that he did not plan on following the PA, that might have affected the votes a little bit.

Prove that he said that.

For those on the outside, the FL pilots were threatened with non-integration if they voted against SL10 while apparently the WN pilots were threatened with implementing an arbitors award should the WN pilots vote against SL10.

Is that correct LeRoy.

Prove that as well. Bet you can't.

 

[Spud]

Prove that he said that.



Prove that as well. Bet you can't.

Southwest Considers Stand-Alone AirTran If Pilot Vote Fails
By Mary Schlangenstein and Mary Jane Credeur
October 11, 2011 5:36 PM EDT
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Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV) told pilots it would keep operating newly acquired AirTran Holdings Inc. (AAI) as a stand-alone carrier if union members don’t agree to combine seniority lists.
Southwest briefed pilots on a “Plan B” for “separate and unintegrated” operations after that union declined to hold a membership election on a seniority proposal, according to an AirTran union summary obtained by Bloomberg News. Pilots at both airlines are now voting until Nov. 7 on a new agreement.
Keeping AirTran flying on its own would run counter to the goal of folding the discount carrier into Southwest, the biggest low-fare airline. Dallas-based Southwest paid $1 billion in cash and stock in May to buy AirTran, winning access to fly into Atlanta, home of the world’s busiest airport.
“I’m sure that’s not what management planned when they acquired AirTran,” said Hunter Keay, a Wolfe Trahan & Co. analyst in New York who recommends holding Southwest. “It probably is to some degree a negotiating tactic.”
Pilots’ approval of one seniority list would give Southwest a timeline to blend workforces and fleets, and set union members’ rankings for pay, schedules and the types of jets they fly. For AirTran pilots, ratification will mean “certainty of integration,” Southwest said in a Sept. 22 letter to union members.
Staying Flexible
Southwest has met with pilots to explain “what that vote is and what it does,” Beth Harbin, an airline spokeswoman, said in an interview today. “Absent approval, we have to think about, ‘Where is the flexibility?’”
Harbin declined to discuss the AirTran union summary or what options Southwest would consider if pilots don’t accept the new seniority agreement.
“I’m certainly not going to go into any detail about what that flexibility is,” Harbin said. “Our focus is going to be on getting the deal with the pilots done quickly because that really does set a good momentum for the rest of the integration.”
Jim Morris, a spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association at AirTran, declined to comment, as did Jacob North, a spokesman for the Southwest Airlines Pilots’ Association. AirTran has about 1,700 pilots, while Southwest has more than 6,000.
Southwest rose 2.3 percent to $8.15 today in New York trading. The stock has fallen 37 percent this year for the third-worst decline among 10 carriers in the Bloomberg U.S. Airlines Index.
Pilot Balloting
The seniority agreement now being voted on by pilots was crafted after AirTran’s union decided against sending the original version to rank-and-file members. Under the new plan, current Southwest pilots’ seniority rights would be protected, and AirTran pilots would get pay raises.
“The company believes this proposal strongly merits your support,” Southwest said in the Sept. 22 letter.
If the ratification vote falls short, Southwest executives have developed “Plan B” as a contingency, according to the AirTran union summary. Details of that strategy were completed on Sept. 20, the summary said.
“Plan B calls for AAI and SWA to remain separate and unintegrated,” according to the summary, using abbreviations for AirTran and Southwest.
Savings, Revenue
A stand-alone AirTran would provide the same savings and revenue benefits because it would keep collecting $200 million a year in fees for checked bags, and AirTran’s Boeing Co. (BA) 717s wouldn’t be blended into Southwest’s fleet, the summary said. Southwest flies only Boeing 737s.
“It’s certainly a valid strategy,” Keay, the Wolfe Trahan analyst, said in an interview.
Southwest has said it expects that full integration of the airlines would take about two years after receiving regulatory approval to operate as a single carrier in 2012’s first quarter. Pilots’ failure to agree on an integration plan can scuttle mergers or keep airlines from operating as a single carrier after a tie-up.
Southwest’s 2009 bid for Frontier Airlines Holdings Inc. faltered when the carriers’ pilots couldn’t agree on seniority. US Airways Group Inc. (LCC) pilots are still feuding over seniority after the carrier’s creation in the 2005 merger of its namesake predecessor and America West Holdings Corp., forcing management to follow separate work agreements with two unions.
To contact the reporters on this story: Mary Schlangenstein in Dallas at [email protected]; Mary Jane Credeur in Atlanta at [email protected]